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I'm sure this topic has come up before, in fact I have already posted a similiar thread, but I still have a question.

If .223 is considered powerful enough to eliminate a 150-200lb human, why is it considered uneffective on a 150-200lb deer?

If the problem is lack of powder, I would imagine that reloading or specialty ammo. (Buffalo Bore or similiar) could solve such a problem.

It seems to me that a .223'' diameter would put a big enough hole in a deer if it had enough powder.

Gents, please enlighten me!
Thanks,
~Sierra
 

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SierraSon said:
If .223 is considered powerful enough to eliminate a 150-200lb human, why is it considered uneffective on a 150-200lb deer?
Because it isn't powerful enough for humans. The 5.56 mm was adopted, at least in part, because of the "meat axe" fallacy. That is, that a small caliber bullet will tumble once inside human tissue, therefore causing significant damage. Also, the goals of combat are different than hunting (at least according to the bean counters). In combat (the bean counter's goal) if for a hit to tie up as many enemy personal as possible, reducing the effective force opposing ones own. A small caliber round that wounds/incapacitates, but does not kill removes the maximum number of potential combatants. In theory. The goal of a hunter/purpose of a hunting round is to bring down the game as quickly and effectively as possible. Deer don't seek medical attention, they run off. Because of this a .223/5.56 mm round is not allowed. A wounded (perhaps fatally) deer is likely to run off, well out of range of the hunter, and is likely to result in a wasted animal.

Robert
 

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thearmedrebel said:
Because of this a .223/5.56 mm round is not allowed. A wounded (perhaps fatally) deer is likely to run off, well out of range of the hunter, and is likely to result in a wasted animal.

Robert

What state is it not allowed? I have carried a .223 as a youth in the Northwoods of Minnesota. If you wound an animal, it is your duty to track it down so you don't waste the animal.
 

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SierraSon said:
If .223 is considered powerful enough to eliminate a 150-200lb human, why is it considered uneffective on a 150-200lb deer?
A .22 rimfire is powerful enough to eliminate a human if shot placement is correct. I don't advise that round be used for deer, any more than I do .223.
 

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There are better choices

Under ideal conditions, with the proper bullet placement, anything is possible.

In the real world, the muzzle of your rifle is going to be doing figure eights the size of those big soft preztels they sell at the fair, and when you touch (yank) off the killing shot, your bullet will likely not land exactly where it should. The momentum and energy associated with a reasonable sized bullet travelling at a reasonable velocity will help compensate for this lack of precision, break through bones and generally make a mess of things on the inside of the animal.

I have never looked for .223 bullets to be used for hunting, but suspect that most of them are designed for small animals of the prarie dog variety, and will break apart on impact, rather than mushroom and hold together, thereby assuring a better wound channel and hopefully an exit wound. Not having an exit wound is a bad thing, especially if the entrance wound is high up, as little blood will be coming out the top, if this is needed for tracking.

In case you are wondering, I shoot a .30-06 Imp. with a 165 or 180 grain bullet travelling around 2825 fps or 2700 fps respectively. Speer Grand Slams work quite well on our Alabama whitetails, as does the Hornady SST.

Good shooting,
Chris
 

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Olys45 said:
What state is it not allowed? I have carried a .223 as a youth in the Northwoods of Minnesota. If you wound an animal, it is your duty to track it down so you don't waste the animal.
Minnesota for one (.23Cal minimum for deer).
 

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.223 is illegal for big game hunting in MN

Olys45 said:
What state is it not allowed? I have carried a .223 as a youth in the Northwoods of Minnesota. If you wound an animal, it is your duty to track it down so you don't waste the animal.
The .223 is illegal for hunting big game in most states including Minnesota. A .223 can be used for small game/predators but not medium/big game.

In Minnesota the minimum legal rifle bullet caliber is .23 inches and case length of 1.285 inches.

Also the 30Cal M1 Carbine was not allowed for big game hunting until this year with the note that ballistically it is more of a pistol than a rifle and the hunter should take caution and only hunt with this rifle using pistol ranges.
 

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Legal in Wisconsin

In Wisconsin you can take deer with any firearm that is at least a .22 center fire cartridge. You can not use .22 rimfire but anything larger is legal.
I was actually taking to my boss at work about this exact subject.
He showed me the regulations after another friend of mine told me about their law regarding handguns. It looks like handguns that are not legal for hunting in my state of Minnesota can be used for deer in Wisconsin.
 

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Wisconsin minimums

I think that if you check again, you'll find the minimum caliber for big game in Wisconsin is .25/6mm and not .22 caliber.

Pistol for big game in Wisconsin is minimum of .30 and it must produce a minum of 500 ft-lb of energy at the muzzle. Wildcat or nonfactory (30 Herret for example) are legal because of the caliber and energy ruling.


Cheers J sends
 

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I'm not supporting its use, but a 223 is legal for deer in Utah. For a few years it wasn't, but last I heard it is now. I don't remember the exact wording for handguns, but it is something like a minimum of 500 ft lbs with a 6 inch barrel. A 357 mag with a 6" barrel is legal here. Best. Watch-Six
 

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I'm not passing judgement on the validity of the cartridge for deer, but I know a TON of folks that used them with very high effectiveness on deer. Legally, too.

My personal favorite whitetail load for mid-southern whitetails is a .243 WIN.
 

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As hunters we have a moral obligation to use a caliber that will kill as quickly as possible. The .223 might, but there are other calibers that are more likely to do so.
 

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the 223 is not enough for humans, and is not enough for deer. it is most certainly illegal to use it for hunting deer in MN.
 

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I haven't looked in a couple of years, but I know the regs in Kansas used to be much like those mentioned by malynch. Minimum cal .23 (effectively meaning .243 Win. was the smallest legal round, unless you're cooking up some kind of custom wildcat round).
 

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I've used a .223

Gentlemen -
I have used a .223 from a Remington bolt action with a 55 grain ballistic tip to take a good number of Texas hill country deer in the past years, and have not lost one. It isn't that I am a great hunter or super shot, but using a .223, you must take close shots and place them well. Head shots or 50-60 yard heart/lung shots NOT through the shoulder, but behind it. The deer in the Texas hills are small (unlike South Texas) and this rifle will shoot where it's supposed to. I also have used that rifle from one of only two particular blinds.
If you can not pass on a deer that's too far or a shot that's not just right, do not use this light of a round. I shot a wild hog that did run off only to be shot by my neighbor later that day. My ballistic tip exploded on the tough "shield" on front of the hog's shoulder. I imagine it would do the same on a shoulder bone.
I know that .223 can be used on deer, but unless I'm hunting one of these two spots, I leave it at home.
phh.
 

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I've taken 2 West Texas deer with a .223, both droped where they stood. However I feel much better doing it with my .280 Rem. I've personally seen quite a few Texas hill country whitetails taken with a .22 mag to the head, no problems there either but that doesn't mean its right. I really feel that .243 is about as low as you should go with white tails, haveing taken a quite a few with that as well I can speak for its effectiveness. Shoot 'em in the head and you will never have any problems.
 

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Olys45 said:
What state is it not allowed? QUOTE]

Kansas is .23 caliber also.
The only year they allowed .223, it sounded like a tv war zone.
Nothing like getting to your favorite spot before dawn and setting up.
Then hear someone crank off a 30 round magazine at the first doe
they saw. :hrm:

Kind of glad I was sitting in the middle of a bunch
of fallen trees.
 

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choose the right bullet

The .223 can and does take deer cleanly providing one uses the right bullet. When building deer loads for my 12 year old daughters (the reason for using such a light caliber for deer), we used the only trustworthy bullet that I could think of for taking deer with such a light caliber. The Barnes X bullet passes through both sides (side to side) and doesn't come apart like most of the rest. The nickle size exit hole through the opposite shoulder convinces one that it works. (Carefull: These bullets ricochet worse than anything that we have tried).
 

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Here in TN, one must use a rifle of at least .24 caliber (6mm), unless in an area specifically exempted by legislation.
 
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