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I have read a lot of post here about the SA Guns, IMHO I am scarred to buy one. I have been seriously thinkin about a SA to add to the collection, you guys have got me nervous. I have Wilson's, Colts and Kimbers with absolutely no problems except for a sorry trigger on the colt. Maybe the base 1911 and send it to Wilson or someone is the right way to go. Is this series of bad stuff and the SA been going on for long or does anyone have any idea why all the problems? How about any of the other SA Guns M1A's and such anyone having problems with them as well?
 

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KMF,
I hate to say it but I think it has come down to luck of the draw. I have a Springfield TRP-Operator that is 100% reliable and very well built. I also think that you are more likely to hear about the problem guns rather than reports by satisfied owners. If more people demanded more of firearms manufacturers, they would produce a better product. They should realize with all of the lawsuits raining down on them that we gun owners are what keep them in business. I don't care how good of a warranty program they have, I want it done right the first time. Enough ranting, I have to agree with you on this one.

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My SA Champion Parkerized is perfect in function and no QC problems at all. I bought 4 more SA mags with coupons, and all 6 mags function perfectly.

The trigger seemed heavier than the 5-6# advertised, but that's been fixed by local gunsmith.
 

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I bought a SA Loaded Stainless, and it's been working just fine so far, a great gun by all standards. The trigger pull was indeed heavier than 5 pounds (it measured at closer to 6.5#), but that's about it.
 

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Hello, this is my 1st post. Went to the range today to try my new Loaded Stainless .45. Perfect in every way. The rear sight didn't fall off, fed everything including Wolf 230FMJ, locked back after last round, shot POA. Nice change after several Colts over the years that had one problem or another. Not that I would't want a pre 70 series Gold Cup!!!

[This message has been edited by clark.45 (edited 09-08-2001).]
 

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I have two "Springers" a MilSpec that I've had for maybe five years, and now a new UltraCompact. The mag on the Ultra burps on the last round with LNR reloads -- really, really short one. That's the fault of the reload.

I traded a ParaOrd 10-45 for the Ultra -- and took a bath on the trade too. But the Ultra is a MUCH finer gun. More nice features, better quality. I like the fact that Springfield uses steel and not plastic for parts. Details are super . . . night sights, titanium firing pin, match barrel that is fully supported, Hogue wrap around grips.

And it's warranted for life.

Kimber is an assembly plant. S&W makes the frames/slides . . . other contractors make the other parts. You can't build a tight gun when you're contracting out all your parts. Springfield is still built to original J.M. Browning specs -- not some slop that allows everything to piece together without fitting.

MilSpec, an Ultra Compact loaded, and a Govt. Tactical Springfield scope. Good products, good company, good service.

If not they'll make it right for you.

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What part of "shall not be infringed" needs 'splainin' ???
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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loader Forum
 

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Originally posted by gyp_c:
...why do you want one?

I had one several years ago & it was the only Colt out of several that was acurate & functioned well. Plus that trophy looks cool!
 

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I've got a stainless SA 1911 "loaded" model that I've had for a few years and don't regret buying it one bit. It's reliable, feeds everything I feed it and has a lifetime warrenty. It may not be as pretty or slick as my Wilson, but I wouldn't trade it.
 

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Owned the first version of the loaded pistols from Springfield. Trigger was pretty fine, but the thing was totally unreliable, and the slide-frame fit was too tight and didn't function correctly. Before that I owned an SA mil-spec. This was a better handgun, for reliability than my loaded, but it still wasn't 100%. Also, it chewed up and dented ejected cases. Needless to say, I got rid of these sharp and unreliable pieces and my dad gave me a new 1991 Colt.

I don't care who makes my 1911, but the thing has to run under any and all conditions. I tried SA twice and was disappointed, but my loose 1991 Colt with it's gritty trigger goes bang every time. That's got me sold! It just works for me.

Also my colt frontstrap is contoured to fit my hand better, and is more comfortable to hold.

I've had good performance from my Colt. Sadly I can't say that for SA. I wish my experiance with Springfield had been different.
 

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Genghis

I make an honest attempt to be nice (although sarcastic at times) and not flame anyone...but what the heck are you talking about?

Details are super . . . night sights, titanium firing pin, match barrel that is fully supported, Hogue wrap around grips
Ummm...doesn't Novak make the night sights? (or at least someone other than SA). And, hate to burst your bubble...but your SA Hogue wrap around grips are made right here in my lil ol home town of Paso Robles, CA...by Hogue, not SA.

Kimber is an assembly plant. S&W makes the frames/slides . . . other contractors make the other parts
What?!?!
Ever heard of Brazil???

Springfield is still built to original J.M. Browning specs
No disrespect to John Browning...excellent beginning...but if your SA is built to original specs...it sucks!

(sorry, just had to do it....)


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"run like hell...you'll just die tired."
 

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Snipe . . .

Springfield OWNS the plant in Brazil, lock, stock, and barrel. The plant could be on the moon. It's still OWNED by Springfield.

The plant in Brasil is NOT run by a tribe of Mestizos in Panama hats, hacking out parts with machetes. The plant is state of the art. You should probably check out industrial development in Brazil. It's NOT "third world" these days.

You forgot to add that the UltraCompact has a Videki trigger. And it looks like Chip McCormick might be producing the mags too.

BUT . . . I'm talking fitted internals, and slide/frame/barrel. Grips, sights, magazines, even triggers are "acccessories"

Kimber doesn't manufacture anything. They just contract parts and assemble them. AND in order to do the assembly, their specs are looser than if they were producing their own guns.

Springfield tunes ALL their guns in Genesco before they go in the box. AND they warrant the gun for life to the original owner.

If I order a part from Springfield, I can be sure that Springfield made it. Of course I can get ANY 1911 part, possibly excepting a frame, from an after-market manufacture. In the case of "match" parts, a smith needs to fit them. Lots of "drop in" parts are fitted "loose" so that they'll drop in without fitting/machine work.

But the way to build a gun is to have your own plant mfg. the parts, to tight spec. and then have them fitted by your crew, to tight spec.

As regards J.M. Browning spec. -- or ANY machine spec for that matter: Any machine job gets "+/-" tolerances. The "spec" is what the part is specified to be. The tolerance is how far out of spec the part can be and still be "in spec." US Govt. Mil Spec tolerances for the GI issue 1911 A-1 -- the defense contract gun -- are pretty loose. That way all the gun parts interchange, one mfg to another. That way the gun shoots when full of dirt and crud. But the J.M. Browning "spec" on the gun is tight. That's the way JMB designs them.

You can compare "spec" on a "tight" gun and a "loose" gun by looking at the AR and the AK-47. Kalashnikov designed the gun "loose" so that it would be reliable. Stoner designed his AR "tight" because he has the technology available to produce a tight gun.

That's what Springfield does. They manufacture their own products, to spec, with tight tolerances. I "hear" about slop getting past the inspection and shipped, but I have a hard time believing it. I've never seen a sloppy Springfield.


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What part of "shall not be infringed" needs 'splainin' ???
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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loader Forum

[This message has been edited by Genghis (edited 09-10-2001).]
 

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On another post Genghis stated on 8/19/2K1:
under the title "Para 10-45 "Best Small Semi Auto" Quote:"10 rds in a small, light, reliable package. This is the reason I went for a Para 10-45. I have a Springfield full size MilSpec which I carry sometimes "in the field." But the Para 10-45 is the way to go for concealed carry.
I can't understand why there is not more discussion here about this amazing little carry gun."

Now he would like us to believe that the Springfield is the best gun on the market.
My question is this, what will it be next month, the Charle Daly? LOL!! just funin' ya man, I felt that about my P10 too, then proceeded to dump about a grand into it, and traded it off for a Colt Defender 3 years ago, I still have the Defender.



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DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER!
 

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Yeah, what about that, Genghis??

[This message has been edited by clark.45 (edited 09-10-2001).]
 

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The NEW ParaOrd is a good gun -- except for the plastic followers and end-base on the magazine. I had an older model which lacked several of the features of the newer gun. ALSO, my Para had an alloy frame -- which is fine if you go for that, but I like a steel frame in a handgun. That and the fact that standard 1911 accessories/parts won't fit on a Para.

I have a half dozen carry guns, also a half dozen girl-friends. I like them all. Which one is best? Depends on a lot of things.

I dumped the Para BEFORE I sank a grand into getting it where I wanted it. I wanted the low mount sights, commander hammer, and beavertail grip -- in a steel frame. All these are offered in the CURRENT Para. But we're still talking a plastic trigger, follower and mag base. Mags are $55. I have tons of mags for the 1911. They all fit the UltraCompact -- even though the ends stick out the butt of the grip. If the fur is flying, I don't care that the mag protrudes, not when it means two more rounds (8 rd. Shooting Star).

I get night sights on the Springer, Videki trigger, Hogue wrap around grips, steel frame, steel mag pars, lifetime warranty, match barrel, better recoil spring design. Shoot me! I'm a fickle bastard.

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What part of "shall not be infringed" needs 'splainin' ???
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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loader Forum

[This message has been edited by Genghis (edited 09-11-2001).]
 

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I am very happy with my Springfield. The first shoot I wasn't because the rear sight needed to be drifted over, but now it's dead on and I really like it. I must have handled and repaired thousands of M1911A1's in the army and I have to say I still like my Springfield.

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Those that beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that don't
 

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Brothers & Sisters of .45 Springfield's,
KMT,

I bought a kit from SA some years ago and built it. It has served me well and been flawless from the git-go.

Remember, you can get a lemon round, a sloppy trigger and all other degrees of anxiety from whatever piece you handle.
Lock-back, un-mag, check your plumbling...
Re-load! Is there anyone down-range?...!

Regards,
Lance Gothic
Shibumi
 

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Genghis

Kimber is an assembly plant. S&W makes the frames/slides . . . other contractors make the other parts. You can't build a tight gun when you're contracting out all your parts.
Kimber doesn't manufacture anything. They just contract parts and assemble them. AND in order to do the assembly, their specs are looser than if they were producing their own guns.
Since you insist on bashing Kimber, and I am now convinced that you have been hired as a sales rep by SA...

It is as though nothing makes you happy... maybe you ought to design your own 1911.

I am by no means bashing SA but I have seen many "sloppy" pistols from them. Most recently a {gasp} TRP. And blued "match grade" barrels? I have also seen extremely tight Kimbers. Everyone has good days and bad days...especially Friday afternoon, belly full 'o lunch and a six pack... then back to the grind at the 'ol pistol "assembly line"...

Agreed. You are fickle, as am I. I'd truly be interested in seeing a "Genghis" designed 1911...for some reason I doubt it would contain any SA "parts"...


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"run like hell...you'll just die tired."
 
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