[The Pelican]

I purchased a WC Hackathorn Special chambered in 9mm with a 4.25” barrel. Just finished breaking it in with 124 grain FMJ Remington ammo which is very clean shooting ammo. After about 800 rounds I noticed that the guide rod has starting taking a set and digging into the frame a lot more than I expected given that the ammo I’ve been shooting is considered very low velocity ammo (about 130,000 Lbs.). I should mention that the frame is an aluminum variant and not made of steel. The pistol came with a 12 lb. recoil spring and given that the rear of the guide rod is digging into the light weight frame in a very noticeable way I thought it might be a good idea to try a WC 12.5 lb. spring and trim it to the same length as the 12 lb. spring. I haven’t taken it to the range yet but putting in an empty magazine the slide easily locked open when I racked the slide. I would very much like to hear from other owners of this particular pistol in the same caliber (9 mm) and the same barrel length (4.25”) that have experienced similar problems with the wearing in of the guide rod.
I think the 12.5 lb. spring will reduce this problem as this is the most enjoyable 1911 I’ve ever shot. And after shooting just about every 1911 type pistol on the market imo this 1911 has no equal. The irony of my purchase of this pistol is that WC stopped making it just this month and there will be no more available, given this pistol is such a pleasure to shoot the logic of discontinuing it escapes me. In any case I appreciate any reply.

 

[apipeguy]

Welcome to the forum and the Wilson sub forum.

Take some photos and call Kent @ Wilson Combat on Monday and talk to him about your issue. 1 (800) 955-4856 ext 299. He will take care of you and your Hackathorn.

Not sure if your talking AT damage or frame damage but photos would help us too.

 

[tjpaxton]

The guide rod will cause some initial slight wear in the aluminum, you will see the black armor tuff wear off and you will see shiny aluminum. but it will never get any worse than what you see now. Wilson guarantees that you can't wear out the aluminum frame, and if you do shoot a sh*t ton of rounds through it and wear the frame they will replace it for free.

Regarding you switching from 12 lb spring to 12.5 spring, it won't make any difference in wear. But you did make a mistake in cutting the new spring to the same length as the original spring. When they were new they were both the same length. The guide rod spring will shorten a little after break in so It's normal for a new guide rod spring to be a little longer than a used spring.

By cutting the 12.5 lb spring, you essentially made it a lighter spring. depending on how much you cut off, you made the 12.5 lb spring a 10 lb, 11 lb or 12 lb spring.

What you should be concerned with is the number of spring coils, not necessarily the length. But anyway, changing the spring weight won't affect the guide rod wear on inside of frame.

Lets see some photos of the wear you speak of.

 

[The Pelican]

Welcome to the forum and the Wilson sub forum.

Take some photos and call Kent @ Wilson Combat on Monday and talk to him about your issue. 1 (800) 955-4856 ext 299. He will take care of you and your Hackathorn.

Not sure if your talking AT damage or frame damage but photos would help us too.

Thanks for your reply. I’ve already called WC and they said it was normal in terms of wear (break-in). I have attached a picture so that you may see for yourself.

Welcome to the forum and the Wilson sub forum.

Take some photos and call Kent @ Wilson Combat on Monday and talk to him about your issue. 1 (800) 955-4856 ext 299. He will take care of you and your Hackathorn.

Not sure if your talking AT damage or frame damage but photos would help us too.

Thanks for your reply. I have attached a photo of what I am describing.

 

[The Pelican]

Thanks for your reply. I’ve already called WC and they said it was normal in terms of wear (break-in). I have attached a picture so that you may see for yourself.

Thanks for your reply. I have attached a photo of what I am describing.
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[The Pelican]

The guide rod will cause some initial slight wear in the aluminum, you will see the black armor tuff wear off and you will see shiny aluminum. but it will never get any worse than what you see now. Wilson guarantees that you can't wear out the aluminum frame, and if you do shoot a sh*t ton of rounds through it and wear the frame they will replace it for free.

Regarding you switching from 12 lb spring to 12.5 spring, it won't make any difference in wear. But you did make a mistake in cutting the new spring to the same length as the original spring. When they were new they were both the same length. The guide rod spring will shorten a little after break in so It's normal for a new guide rod spring to be a little longer than a used spring.

By cutting the 12.5 lb spring, you essentially made it a lighter spring. depending on how much you cut off, you made the 12.5 lb spring a 10 lb, 11 lb or 12 lb spring.

What you should be concerned with is the number of spring coils, not necessarily the length. But anyway, changing the spring weight won't affect the guide rod wear on inside of frame.

Lets see some photos of the wear you speak of.

Just as an FYI, I trimmed the 12.5lb. spring to the same length as a new 12lb. spring to avoid what you described. I have posted a picture of the frame wear I described in answer to another reply.

 

[The Pelican]

The guide rod will cause some initial slight wear in the aluminum, you will see the black armor tuff wear off and you will see shiny aluminum. but it will never get any worse than what you see now. Wilson guarantees that you can't wear out the aluminum frame, and if you do shoot a sh*t ton of rounds through it and wear the frame they will replace it for free.

Regarding you switching from 12 lb spring to 12.5 spring, it won't make any difference in wear. But you did make a mistake in cutting the new spring to the same length as the original spring. When they were new they were both the same length. The guide rod spring will shorten a little after break in so It's normal for a new guide rod spring to be a little longer than a used spring.

By cutting the 12.5 lb spring, you essentially made it a lighter spring. depending on how much you cut off, you made the 12.5 lb spring a 10 lb, 11 lb or 12 lb spring.

What you should be concerned with is the number of spring coils, not necessarily the length. But anyway, changing the spring weight won't affect the guide rod wear on inside of frame.

Lets see some photos of the wear you speak of.

Welcome to the forum and the Wilson sub forum.

Take some photos and call Kent @ Wilson Combat on Monday and talk to him about your issue. 1 (800) 955-4856 ext 299. He will take care of you and your Hackathorn.

Not sure if your talking AT damage or frame damage but photos would help us too.

Not sure what AT damage refers to. Please explain.

 

[tjpaxton]

To touch on the discontinued models. The pistols with names attached to the like Hackathorn or Vickers are not top sellers. Wilson audits it's least selling pistol lines and drops them. However anyone can still enjoy a pistol like yours (Hackathorn Commander). Its essentially a stock CQB Commander and adding a magwell and aluminum frame upgrade.

I have several aluminum frame Wilson pistols, CQB Commander, EDC X9, ULC Carry Professional and many others. None of them have any more wear than your photo. That is completely normal and will not get worse. Trust me.

 

[tjpaxton]

AT is the the acronym for Armor Tuff (AT) Wilson calls their black paint Armor Tuff.

Apipeguy is simply referring AT damage as the black paint wearing off.

Your photo is completely normal, Fire away., enjoy the pistol and this forum.

 

[The Pelican]

To touch on the discontinued models. The pistols with names attached to the like Hackathorn or Vickers are not top sellers. Wilson audits it's least selling pistol lines and drops them. However anyone can still enjoy a pistol like yours (Hackathorn Commander). Its essentially a stock CQB Commander and adding a magwell and aluminum frame upgrade.

I have several aluminum frame Wilson pistols, CQB Commander, EDC X9, ULC Carry Professional and many others. None of them have any more wear than your photo. That is completely normal and will not get worse. Trust me.

You seem well versed in WC pistols, I will hope you’re right as I enjoy shooting this 1911 more than any other one I’ve shot and frankly after 48 years I’ve shot my share.

 

[apipeguy]

I agree with tjpaxton that the wear is only the AT wearing off. To be honest, it is just paint and it will wear. It has great rust preventative abilities but it is not a super durable finish. Refinishes are pretty affordable.

I don’t have many AT finished guns but one is at about the 8,000 round mark and is very impressive considering the round count.

Your photo showed up inside a post quote. Perhaps a separate post with the photo would be beneficial for us.

On a side note, my CQB Commander bought optioned almost identical to the Hackathorn Special but before they were available, is at over 17,000 flawless rounds and is still as good as the day it was made. It is all carbon steel and blued but nonetheless.

 

[The Pelican]

To touch on the discontinued models. The pistols with names attached to the like Hackathorn or Vickers are not top sellers. Wilson audits it's least selling pistol lines and drops them. However anyone can still enjoy a pistol like yours (Hackathorn Commander). Its essentially a stock CQB Commander and adding a magwell and aluminum frame upgrade.

I have several aluminum frame Wilson pistols, CQB Commander, EDC X9, ULC Carry Professional and many others. None of them have any more wear than your photo. That is completely normal and will not get worse. Trust me.

Out of all your WC pistols, which one is your favorite to shoot at the range. Being a senior citizen the Hackathorn Special is far more tame to shoot versus a 1911 chambered in .45acp in a Government configuration. Once you get past 65 the full size 1911’s tend to take away the joys of shooting as the Commander size in 9mm is much easier to handle and also more cost effective as 115 grain 9mm ammo is less expensive than the 45acp. 230 grain in FMJ. I can remember when 45acp. ball ammo was about $7
for a box of 50, back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.

 

[tjpaxton]

Out of all your WC pistols, which one is your favorite to shoot at the range. Being a senior citizen the Hackathorn Special is far more tame to shoot versus a 1911 chambered in .45acp in a Government configuration. Once you get past 65 the full size 1911’s tend to take away the joys of shooting as the Commander size in 9mm is much easier to handle and also more cost effective as 115 grain 9mm ammo is less expensive than the 45acp. 230 grain in FMJ. I can remember when 45acp. ball ammo was about $7
for a box of 50, back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.

My most enjoyable to shoot aluminum frame is the Ultralight Carry Professional in 9mm. (Aluminum Frame , 4-inch barrel)

My most enjoyable Steel frame is My Tactical Supergrade 9mm with 5-inch barrel.

 

[apipeguy]

I’ll hit 68 this year. My first choice will always be a .45. If I am going to shoot more than 300 rounds in a range session, I’ll choose my 9mm CQB Commander. There are many days that I will still choose a 9mm no matter the round count. But a .45 still gives me more pleasure to shoot.

I have been carrying a 9mm for about 2 months now, do I feel under gunned, no. Does my heart still go to a .45, yes. That very well may change and it seems that it is.

 

[7.62Kolectr]

My most enjoyable to shoot aluminum frame is the Ultralight Carry Professional in 9mm. (Aluminum Frame , 4-inch barrel)

My most enjoyable Steel frame is My Tactical Supergrade 9mm with 5-inch barrel.

I also have a lightweight pro in 9mm and like you I also enjoy shooting it the most. Not sure why?
Op my gun has a few thousand rounds thru it. It’s fine. Keep shooting yours. If something more serious happens Wilson will fix it.

 

[Rob S]

Just as an FYI, I trimmed the 12.5lb. spring to the same length as a new 12lb. spring to avoid what you described. I have posted a picture of the frame wear I described in answer to another reply.

Let's get back to the spring issue which TJPaxton mentioned.
The weight/strength of a spring is in part determined by the diameter of the wire, not just the length. I learned this 20+ years ago when I got my Ned Christiansen pistol, my first custom pistol. Ned included detailed information about the diameter of the wire (which varies by weight) and number of coils and how to match the diameter and the appropriate number of coils to the pistol, etc. It makes excellent sense when reading, but it's easier for me to just use the spring that he recommended. Also, go to the Wolff gunsprings website/FAQ's for more information.
Therefore, when a person cuts off a part of a spring to "match" length, all bets should be off as to what the weight/strength is.

 

[The Pelican]

You’re reply is just another person’s point of view. I checked with a Master Pistol Smith at the company that built my 1911. Not being a Pistol Smith I saw no reason to doubt what I was told and I was told to measure the stock Spring (12lb.) and be sure and trim the 12.5lb. spring to the same length, which I did. The initial results have been very good. Of course I have only put 150 rounds thru the pistol since putting in the heavier spring but it seems to have cured any further tendency for the guide rod to “take a set” and remove any further aluminum. Just as an FYI, the new spring diameter is the same as the old one. Lastly, as I was told and do in fact agree with is that every pistol is different, even if made in the same factory, even if made by the same man, even if it’s chambered in the same caliber! One thing I will say from experience, I usually shoot Remington 115 Gr. or 124 Gr. FMJ.
I recently bought a box of WC 115 Gr. Hollow Points (100 rounds) and while they are far to pricey for me to shoot on a regular basis I will say in my experience with them they seem to be far more accurate than the factory ammo from Remington or Winchester or similar
companies. As my pistol smith said to me, in his 30+ years of experience there will always be people who nitpick their various firearms be it the recoil spring, the hammer, right down to the grips! Assuming there are no obvious physical defects to the pistol, as he said, “In his experience PRACTICE seems to cure 99% of most of the problems.” In my experience as a 1911 shooter for the past 50 years I wholeheartedly agree, of course to each his own.

 

[The Pelican]

Addendum:
The factory 12lb spring according to the specs has a useful life of 4,000 rounds while the 12.5lb spring has a useful life of 20,000 rounds which of course needs to be taken into account.

 

[apipeguy]

Very rarely are you able to speak with a gunsmith at Wilson. If you spoke to Steve in customer service (he was a gunsmith there for a very long time and has my utmost respect and friendship) you can take that advice to the bank. I’m not very confident the advice came from Steve. If you just talked to someone in CS, I would take that advice with a grain of salt. If you spoke with someone at a local gun shop, seek further advice. In my opinion with many years in the 1911 platform cutting to length is poor advice from someone who really does not know.

 

[The Pelican]

FYI, I know Steve Kelley at WC very well and unfortunately he's retiring on April 27th next month. But there are a few other Pistol Smiths that work at WC that are just as competent. In my case the person I spoke to also works at WC and as he said the weight a recoil spring is listed at isn't determined by the length but by the material it's made out of, and the diameter of the coils of the spring and as he said most times if you were to take a coil out of the factory packaging it more times than not, will not match the printed weight on the package, as he said, for $7 dollars you're not getting a precisely and finely machined product. In any case as I previously mentioned, to each his own. Just out of curiosity,
do you believe removing 2 to 4 coils of the springs' length changes its' poundage. I did ask a mechanical engineer friend of mine and although he's not a gunsmith, his answer made sense to me. His reply was, if you remove or add more than 10%-15% of the length of the spring than you will either decrease or increase the length which by default will increase or decrease the rated poundage of the spring and of course if the spring is too short it simply won't function and the same holds true for increasing the length. That said, after using a 12.5 lb. recoil spring I have had better results than with the 12lb. spring, hence, I will continue to use it to get the results I want. As for what you use, you'll use what you believe works for you as I do and do most shooters. There is no absolute right or wrong answers, one gathers the information they seek and uses it in the manner they wish to, simple as that. BTW, if you are in the market for any WC full size parts from grips to springs or whatever, let me know. I used to have a couple of full size WC 1911's and now I have a bunch of new parts for them but I no longer have any full size 1911's, just my Hackathorn Commander size in 9mm. Good luck.