[scw2]

I have been spoiled by very good 1911 triggers. The Wilson triggers are particularly outstanding.

I have an LWRC M6A3 that I have begun to shoot more and the trigger bugs me some because I am comparing the LWRC Enhanced Trigger to 1911s.

The LWRC is a great gun, and the Enhanced Trigger is very smooth, but the trigger pull weight is in the 6 to 7.5 pound range. (from Googled sources as my trigger gauge is gone.)

My 1911s, as measured by my old gauge, were at 3.3 to 3.9 pounds.

The higher trigger weight of the LWRC feels strange when I switch out from my 1911s.

I understand the rationale for the higher trigger pull weight in the LWRC, and I think their next level up was a Geissele trigger when I bought their gun.

I am thinking about buying the Wilson TR-TTU to better replicate the trigger feel of my Wilson 1911s.

Am I on the right track?

 

[TCFD273]

Yes.....but

What type of shooting do you do?

I have 2 Wilson TTU's and several Geissele's. If your shooting for accuracy go with a Geissele's national match, speed go with a TTU if you want a drop in part or Geissele 3 gun if your familiar with the AR platform.

The Geissele 3 gun is NOT like the TTU. The 3 gun is a glock trigger on ball bearings and comes in at 3.5ish pounds.

 

[joshua1911]

I have the TR-TTU installed in my Noveske. There is hardly any take up and a very crisp break. The trigger weight is about 3.5-4 pounds. It is a fantastic AR trigger.

 

[scw2]

Yes.....but

What type of shooting do you do?

I have 2 Wilson TTU's and several Geissele's. If your shooting for accuracy go with a Geissele's national match, speed go with a TTU if you want a drop in part or Geissele 3 gun if your familiar with the AR platform.

The Geissele 3 gun is NOT like the TTU. The 3 gun is a glock trigger on ball bearings and comes in at 3.5ish pounds.

Good question on type of shooting.

The answer is two totally different types of shooting:

1. Accuracy at 25 to 100 yards. This shooting is just for fun and is compromised somewhat by using an Eotech 556 matched to an Eotech G33 3x magnifier. I like the combination, but realize the limitations for precise target shooting.

2. Self defense. I live in the highest Hurricane frequency area in the US. After watching the Tenth Mountain Division and other military having to impose order after Hurricane Andrew, and talking to an early reserve Coast Guard responder after Hurricane Katrina, I value an AR for this option.

Regards,

 

[TCFD273]

For your type of shooting and with the Eotech I recommend

-TTU
-Geissele 3 gun
-CMC trigger

Don't get me wrong, I can shoot nice groups with the TTU, but if I'm shooting past 300yds I prefer a 2 stage trigger.

 

[scw2]

Thanks to everybody.

 

[scw2]

Any ideas on how the Wilson TR-TTU feels in comparison to the Wilson pistol trigger?

 

[Tack425]

Honestly I would go TTU single stage, or Timney. Both are heard to beat for your HD and close range shooting out to 100M as you stated earlier.

 

[chrysanthemum]

Any ideas on how the Wilson TR-TTU feels in comparison to the Wilson pistol trigger?

Quite a while ago, when purchasing my first Wilson AR, I posed the question of which Wilson AR trigger was most similar in feel to a Wilson 1911 trigger.

The response, from probably the best source around (I'll let you guess) was the Wilson two-stage trigger.

I have this on each of my Wilson ARs, and have been completely satisfied.

Even so, this all comes back to personal uses of an AR as well as the individual's own tastes.

For example, a two-stage trigger is not the best choice for rapid fire. Nor is it the best choice for most "duty" applications. But it's generally a superb choice for precision, unhurried one-shot-at-a-time shooting. And the latter was/is my priority.

(Because I do not have a single-stage TR-TTU, I unfortunately cannot make a comparison with that specific trigger).

 

[goaround28]

Glad this thread started up. My firearms knowledge is based squarely on handguns and shotguns. Never been a rifle guy but bought two AR's a few years back when it looked like the nuts in Sacramento were going to ban them all together. Got a Franklin Arms to support a CA rifle company and a PWS MK116 to have a piston job. I like that gun a lot. Collectively they have only about 300 rounds through them.

Like the OP I've eyed the TTU but can't decide between the single or two stage. My use case is similar to his: Inside 100 yards and a potential (big maybe) for future use as HD. Both have the same EoTech set up as the OP.

School me further:

1. What does a two stage trigger bring to the table that makes it incompatible for for duty and I assume HD? The TR-TTU (single 4#) and TR-TTU-M2 (dual 4#) are both optimized for comp and hunting but only the single stage is advertised for duty.
2. If two stage isn't ideal for HD why is there a TTU (TR-TTU-H2 Paul Howe) that is "optimized for duty?" Is it really just the extra 0.5-1 weight?
3. Is a two stage really a lighter pull or does it just divide the weight between two pull segments for a perceived lighter pull on the second?

OP, no intent here to side track your thread...hoping to enhance it while answering some long lingering questions of mine.

 

[joshua1911]

I cannot speak for the WC Two Stage trigger. What I can tell you is that the single stage TR-TTU is very light with no almost no take-up. The reset is so short and positive that rapid fire is a breeze. However, it is not so light that the end user ever feels a loss of control. From what I have read, Paul Howe specifically requested a heavier trigger pull which he feels is more suited to law enforcement/duty applications.

 

[scw2]

OP, no intent here to side track your thread...hoping to enhance it while answering some long lingering questions of mine.

Sir,

Your situation is similar to mine.

Your further questions are most welcome.

Regards,

Craig

 

[Grandpas50AE]

I have felt the TR-TTU single stage trigger, and it is very crisp and feels just like a Wilson 1911 trigger. For duty use, I tend to agree with Paul Howe on wanting a little heavier trigger, and that is probably why he went with the two-stage TR-TTU-M2. IMO, the two-stage trigger, even if requiring the same poundage to break, gives a little more travel during take-up that lets the user know they are getting close. My Shillen-barreled .300 Win. Mag. has a Timney trigger (single-stage) set at exactly 4 pounds, and is very accurate out to any distance I'm able to shoot these days (not as far as it once was), but it isn't one I'd use for a duty trigger unless I was a SWAT sniper or something (then it would be considerably lighter than 4.0 pounds).

Which one is better? That depends on the person; some feel much better with a 2-stage, others prefer a single stage. Whichever one you shoot best with for your intended purpose is the one you should get.

 

[chrysanthemum]

School me further:

1. What does a two stage trigger bring to the table that makes it incompatible for for duty and I assume HD? It's not that it's incompatible; instead, it's not designed for the circumstances of duty, where it must be presumed that the operator is firing, or making ready to fire, under great stress ... in other words, fine dexterity skills aren't at the forefront, and one wants to avoid an unintended discharge due to a very light trigger pull. Under stress, and immediate need/readiness to fire, the operator would simply pull through the two stages as though it were one stage, but the pull weight is excessively light for what most people consider to be best for "duty". The TR-TTU (single 4#) and TR-TTU-M2 (dual 4#) are both optimized for comp and hunting but only the single stage is advertised for duty.
2. If two stage isn't ideal for HD why is there a TTU (TR-TTU-H2 Paul Howe) that is "optimized for duty?" Is it really just the extra 0.5-1 weight? I don't have this specific trigger, but I'm guessing (with a lot of confidence) that the extra weight is to better ensure that, under stress conditions, the operator is really intending to fire. Similar to the heavy trigger pull on double-action pistols being considered a "safety measure" (of sorts).
3. Is a two stage really a lighter pull or does it just divide the weight between two pull segments for a perceived lighter pull on the second? You've got it right. The two-stage is the same concept as the old two-trigger set-up on late 1800's era Sharps. It lets you know when firing is imminent ... you reach the "hair trigger" point which allows for minimal risk of moving the gun upon the final pull. And obviously, this is beneficial only when you have the time to take slow, deliberate aim..

OP, no intent here to side track your thread...hoping to enhance it while answering some long lingering questions of mine.

My opinions above ... just opinions.

 

[joshua1911]

My opinions above ... just opinions.

Great info here on the various AR triggers. Thanks Chrysanthemum!

 

[TCFD273]

A 2 stage trigger has "forgiveness" built in. You can come in and out of the trigger.
My long range guns have about 1.5lb take up, you "feel the wall" and 0.5lb more pressure and it sends it. Most precision rifles have 2 stage triggers.

I've never bought into having a heavy trigger for duty. 3.5lbs is fine. The rifle has a safety for a reason, and you shouldn't be running around with your finger on the trigger.

Most of us on this forum carry a pistol with 3.5lb trigger, so why a heavier one on a rifle?.....just saying

 

[chrysanthemum]

I also prefer to go with light trigger pulls, and keep them as similar as possible among my handguns and rifles.

As to heavier trigger pulls, no matter what we all know about safety precautions, there have been incidents when a LEO or a soldier in combat applied enough force to discharge a firearm when he/she wasn't intending to do so (but was in utmost readiness condition, expecting to need to fire immediately).

I'm not making excuses for these situations, not at all, but if a person is responsible for an entire department of LEOs or equipping an army of soldiers, he/she does need to take into account lessons learned through practical, actual history. Liability and other issues can come to the forefront, and the employer/city of a LEO (for example) who "accidentally" touched the trigger is hard pressed to defend a shooting that is legally deemed "wrongful". The opposing attorney will devour any attempt to justify, to a jury, a light trigger pull combined with a "wrongful" shooting.

So I believe there is a place for a duty trigger, and in combat/stress conditions, where any normal person will have a surge of adrenaline running through them, the operator hardly even feels the extra pull weight. For those who sometimes carry (heaven forbid!) a double-action polymer gun, there is some reason for some individuals to choose a correspondingly heavier pull weight for a 1911. For individuals shooting with gloved hands (bitter cold conditions, etc.), there are also many who prefer a heavier pull weight due to reduced tactile sensation in their trigger finger.

As always, each person should make a decision that's best for his/her circumstances and environment.

 

[TCFD273]

The ONLY time (knock on wood) I've ever had an ND was many moons ago, in a not friendly land.....I was holding my M249 with my left hand by the forearm, dropped to my knee to look at a map, when the butt of the rifle hit the ground it discharged. Other than that, I kept my booger hooker off the bang switch. Unless I wanted it to go bang! Lol

 

[chrysanthemum]

^^^^^

+1 and with a smile and tip of the hat for your service.

 

[scw2]

I've never bought into having a heavy trigger for duty. 3.5lbs is fine. The rifle has a safety for a reason, and you shouldn't be running around with your finger on the trigger.

Most of us on this forum carry a pistol with 3.5lb trigger, so why a heavier one on a rifle?.....just saying

You anticipated my next question.

Unless there is something about an AR, or a particular AR trigger, that I am totally ignorant of, what is wrong with a 4 pound pull on an AR, if all your 1911s are averaging around 3.6 pounds?

But, I can understand a manufacturer or designer putting a heavier trigger on for legal reasons, or because the gun must be designed for a lower quartile of users who may not be enthusiasts.

Thanks for your answer.