Winchester Silvertip ammo?
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One of my pet peeves is that factory ammo usually does not get the velocity the company claims. That said, I found that Winchester was pretty close in my 38 Super Plus P. A decade or so ago, I built a Super and it is a one inch gun, the only one I have ever owned, and I doubt I could build one again. I just pulled out my range records because Silver Tips were the most accurate ammo I could find and still is my first choice if I carry that gun.
On November 27, 2012, I went shooting. I had killed a big deer the weekend before and my season was over. Here are my notes from that day.
Winchester 125 grain Silvertip Plus P 1,188 fps. Their adds say 1,226 fps 97% of advertised
Winchester 130 grain Plus P FMJ 1,227 fps Their adds say 1,240 fps 99% of advertised
Both were a little slow but great compared to most others. I FMJ are their white box version. Extremely accurate as well.
And as I said above it has been my carry ammo in the little Officer's Model since 1985. I do not see any records that I kept on it but it was always 100%. I know that because in all these years I have never had a single jam or fail to feed or anything except perfection out of that little gun. Nope, not for sale.
I think you will find them pretty good ammo, not Supervel or Buffalo Bore but good enough.
On November 27, 2012, I went shooting. I had killed a big deer the weekend before and my season was over. Here are my notes from that day.
Winchester 125 grain Silvertip Plus P 1,188 fps. Their adds say 1,226 fps 97% of advertised
Winchester 130 grain Plus P FMJ 1,227 fps Their adds say 1,240 fps 99% of advertised
Both were a little slow but great compared to most others. I FMJ are their white box version. Extremely accurate as well.
And as I said above it has been my carry ammo in the little Officer's Model since 1985. I do not see any records that I kept on it but it was always 100%. I know that because in all these years I have never had a single jam or fail to feed or anything except perfection out of that little gun. Nope, not for sale.
I think you will find them pretty good ammo, not Supervel or Buffalo Bore but good enough.
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Didn't the guy who invented the Winchester Black Talon change jobs to Remington and invent the Golden Sabre that pretty much does the same thing as Black Talons using folded cartridge brass as jacket material that unfolds into sharp, stiff "petals" that cut flesh? I love Golden Sabres and in 147 gr 9mm was my carry round for quite a while. I switched to Federal 124 gr HST about 3 years ago but I still have an unopened box of Golden Sabres.
Anyway, Is anyone out there, besides me, old enough to remember Mer-core ammo? I saw these for sale in Shotgun News in the 1970s. They were mercury filled pistol bullets! Mercury is heavier than lead and the idea was that the mercury would splatter into penetrating droplets causing nasty damage. The ads for these bullets did not run long. I imagine they were outlawed in short order or did not sell. I sure as hell wouldn't care to try them!
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I’ve still got the Same +P in the 38 that I bought in 1982. My neighbor the cop and I used to go camp out drink beer and shoot out on the Platt River outside Denver off in the mountains. He got some for his 45;1911. when the new Denver phone books came out we scavenged all we could and headed out to the boonies to try them. My 38 s out of a 4” Model 28 opened up into around half inch and blew open a wicked deep cavity. His 45s did just about what the old army ball I used to carry in the Army did, not very much at all. I was quite surprised by how little it did . Of course it wasn’t scientific by todays standards but seems like the 45 might do better with the heavy slow bullets. Some fine day I’ll have to try out my dead soft lead powder coated 260Gn RN and see how they open up .
Not old enough for that but I remember Paul Kersey doing that in Death Wish.
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I don't know who made the Silvertips for rifle in the late 1970's, but I found the 180-gr load in 30-06 was very effective on deer and elk. Then one day circumstances had me in a kneeling position aiming my 1903A3 at where I expected a big whitetail running from another hunter would come into sight. With the deer about 30 feet from me and coming directly at me, I pulled the trigger and got a loud click! I froze for a second wondering if it was safe to eject the round. By the time I chambered a new cartridge, the deer was running past me at a distance of about five feet. I pushed the muzzle right at its side and pulled the trigger just as my slick soled cowboy boots slipped in the four inches of snow (remember I was kneeling and trying to turn and follow the deer) and I fell right on my back as I shot the round straight up in the air and the whitetail disappeared down a brush-filled ravine. I later determined that the first round would not fire with multiple attempts. This event was what caused me to start loading my own ammo and I have never hunted with factory ammo since, even though some of it is probably better than anything I can load myself. I like my loads because they always go bang and I have learned their exact performance over the years. Would I still use a Silvertip load? Sure, but I would not push its limits and I would try to keep to deliberate, one-shot kills from a rest, not the crazy scenario when the factory round failed to fire - a once in a lifetime experience.
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In the 80s, S&W introduced, and later Federal produced a lead hollow cavity bullet with a nylon jacket called Nyclad. Originally intended to offer an economical round for indoor range and duty use. It made for a bullet that expanded well at moderate velocities, and cut airborne lead on indoor ranges. It was quite effective in actual shootings. However, the nylon was difficult to apply, resulting in a lot of rejected bullets. Powder-coating was not used back then.
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Wow. Hard luck for sure. My Win 70 was made in 1970 and from the day I got it will shoot 1 inch or less with my reloads. I settled on a BTSP Hornay #3033 about 35 years ago, with 59.0 grains of IMR 4350. I killed an antelope at 563 with it, with my 2 best hunting buds watching, one of those deals where I just waited and waited until I was steady. Held 18 inches of his left eye and 18 inches into the wind, guess of his size. Andy, when the bullet hit him my buds just looked and me and said. That never happened, we will tell anyone you tell you are lying. LOL The gun was that good, and always about 1 inch. The one year grandkids got me 2 boxes of the Silvertips 180 grain. First time I fired 3 rounds my buddy told me we needed to check the scope, none in the black, so we walked down to the target and was one hole. So, looking at the backboard, looked like more than one hole. So, I did it again aiming at a different spot. Holy crap. And then a third time, one tiny hole. Never shot that good in my life. I killed every deer I ever shot at with that gun, one round. The gun and a deer 3 years ago are my icon.
I had another 30-06 a Rem 7400 Carbine, 18 inch barrel, same thing but not quite so good. But a 1 inch gun, I killed over 20 deer with that gun, all one shot kills, about half of them were with the Silvertips, the rest were all With Remington Factory. They were so good, I would sight my gun in with reloads, then fire one round of them to confirm. I still have 7-8 of the original 40 rounds.
I have killed a lot of animals with my own loads in 243 and 30-06 and now hunt with a 257 Weatherby. You cannot miss with one of those, if you can see it, and it stops, you can kill it. LOL I have killed 10 or 11 with it, out to 403 yards. It is a one inch gun but that is good enough. It shoots flatter than the 30-06 and I just like it for that reason.
Anyway, we just had opposite luck with the Silvertips.
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Thanks for the great stories. I have no trouble believing them, having grown up on the plains in Montana where shots past 300 yards were not considered hard or unusual. I did not have an accuracy problem with the 180 grain Silvertips, just the one cartridge that did not fire at the worst possible time. I probably used it as an excuse to start reloading as I was getting sucked into the semi-auto pistol game as well as trying for high velocities from certain cartridges. My standard load for the 30-06 became a 180 grain Nosler partition with 57 grains of IMR4350 - a max load for my gun which was and still is a 1903 Springfield made in 1918. It was converted to a sporter with a scope and white spacers on the stock some time before I bought it. My 1903A3 remains in original wood and sights and I shoot slightly lighter loads in it. My dad got it for me through DCM in 1957 for $12 and it was made in 1943.
At the age of 12 through 18, I could shoot it prone with surplus ball ammo at 400 yards and put eight out of 10 rounds in the 4-inch x-ring on a 8-inch 10-ring. When I got back to grad school from the Army in 1972, I could still shoot 1-inch, 3-shot groups offhand at 100 yards consistently with the 1903A3. Sadly those days are now gone. I also have a 257 Weatherby I built on a Ruger varmint profile M77 in about 1983. It had a 1:10 twist so would stabilize the heavier bullets that you could not use in the Weatherby barrels at that time. It shoots like a laser, but you better put the bullet where it should be or you will tear up a lot of meat.
I shot a bull elk with the 30-06 load mentioned above at 610 yards. The bull was facing me and simply turned and started walking down a game trail. I shot him broadside through the lungs and he went down. The bullet for the lung shot passed clear through him, in one side and out the other. The first shot hit him dead center in the chest, deflected off the bone and traveled under the hide to stop in his right shoulder. The only marks on the Nosler partion were the rifling marks from the barrel and a slightly flattened lead tip, probably from hitting the front of the magazine box due to recoil during other shots. Way to far for a 30-06. That prompted me to build a 300 Win, but that is another story. Thanks for your comments.
Replying to my own post but I think I screwed up on that one. Wasn't it Roy Scheider in Jaws?
I was pretty sure it was, and had typed a response as such, but then did some research.
Apparently it was cyanide he was putting in the hollow points, not mercury, and it was in Jaws II.
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I bought several boxes of silver tips in 185 grain for the .45 ACP, and 115 grain 9mm back in 2020, because at the time it's the only defense ammo that was available during the whole COVID insanity. I mostly use 185 grain in my carry pistols, all of which are 3" or 3.5" 1911s. They feed great, at least when using WC magazines. A few months back I did some research, and the silver tips don't seem to expand when fired from a short barrel .45. Wasn't impressed with the results of the 9mm either. I'm a fairly skilled shooter, but don't claim to be a ballistics expert by any means. However, if I'm paying for expanding ammo, I want it to do what it was designed to do. Since then ive switched to Speer Gold Dot short barrel loads.
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Still, a really dumb thing to splatter mercury everywhere. Although, it is most toxic in a vapor state. The skin does not absorb it well and it would most likely just pass through the body if swallowed. Yes…I did Google that! 🙂
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You and me both, my .32 was stolen but one day I will get another!
Watched a friend shoot a 90 lb doe with one shot from Colt 1903 with 60gr STHP. She ran ~30 yards and piled up DRT. Finger sized hole through back of both lungs and liver, perfectly expanded STHP under off side hide.
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The old style 185 STHP were better for Officers ACP. The aluminum jacket offered little resistance to expansion.
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In the "Day of the Jackal" the professional assassin used bullets that had Mercury Tips. It is an old technique used to enhance expansion. It can have an "explosive" affect on soft targets.
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Well the best guy to ask would be Jerry Dove, but you can't, as he is dead
Actually, I'd give them a mixed review since there are two different types of Silver-tips for handguns and another type for rifles.
The First 9mm loading was a 115 gr. aluminum jacketed hollow point (that is the one that only penetrated 5" from Dove's gun in the FBI "Miami Masacre" - no bone was hit).
The .45 Silvertip was also aluminum (as was the .38 Spl. and the .44 Spl). The .45 was a 185 gr. at 950 fps (nominally) and I've had those fail to exit 8 lbs woodchucks (they do open up though). The .44 Spl is a 200 gr. but only goes around 800 from a 4".
I have not seen any of the .45s, .44 spl or .38 Spl. lately so I don't know if they have changed - the 9mms went to cupro-nickel jackets as is the Super .38 and the 9X23.
The Magnum Revolver rounds and the 10mm and later 9mm are jacketed with standard cupro-nickel jackets and then nickel plated to make them silver - those are a "horse of a different color" - while sort of light for caliber they are also not loaded super hot and hold together - a friend shot a deer that was facing him with a 210 gr. .44 from a 5" M-29 and it expanded perfectly and ended up in the rump! The 10mm and .41 Magnum are 175 gr. at around 1250 and the .357 is 145 gr. about the same velocity.
The 9X23 Silver tip gets 1560 fps from my partner's Colt 9 X 23, it only gets 1450 from my Barsto 5" barrel (A re-chambered Super .38).
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