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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would any of you LEO's say to someone that presented his license and CCW permit to you at a traffic stop "..don't touch your weapon or I will kill you."?

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Philippians 4:8-9 Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; …think on these things.
 

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Originally posted by Seth:
Would any of you LEO's say to someone that presented his license and CCW permit to you at a traffic stop "..don't touch your weapon or I will kill you."?
Somehow Seth I get the impression this is going to turn out to be one of those, "Hey, my friend Bubba had this happen to him and I just want to find out if this is right."

You just never know what actually happened unless you were actually there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
PatricL, No it happened to me. I came home and posted it here the day it happened. So it is not some.. I heard from my friends sisters, cousin that her boyfriend.. thing.

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Philippians 4:8-9 Whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; …think on these things.
 

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Probably nothing but 'yes sir'. What I know and would be thinking would be somewhat different, and will not be put down here. Another reason I love my state, Indiana, I have never informed a LEO that I was carrying. GLV
 

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If you'll check the topic about how LEO's feel about CCW permits, you'll find officers who have a problem with this are definitely in the minority. When a motorist informs me he has a permit and is armed, I merely remind them to keep their hands where I can see them, ask them where they are carrying the weapon and advise them not to SHOW me where :). Other than that, I show them the same courtesy afforded to any cooperative person I contact. Be nice, and I'll be nice.
 

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I really doubt the LEO who stopped you was operating under departmental police to threaten CCW permit holders who carry. That just is not the appropriate thing to do. Since you apparently didn't do anything at the time to warrant such a threat and apparently have not reported it, you should consider reporting the incident. Maybe nothing will come of it, maybe something will.

At the time, I probably would have responded with a smart-a$$ed comment that would have gotten me in trouble like "I've seen the stats for LEOs in this country and you are going to miss me at least 3 times out of 4 if you are having a good day and miss me all together with every round if you are having a bad day. You will shoot your gun dry, be defenseless, and caught in the open trying to do a combat reload. We don't want that do we, officer?"
 

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Get real! It would take an idiot to say something like that and if he worked for me I would fire him. Hell I would not hire a chuckle head like that to work for my agency. That power hungry clown has no business wearing any agencys badge. This fool is a loose cannon and is going to cause his agency much grief...

7th

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If the officer truly said that under those conditions,he was out of line, and unprofessional, however, do not follow doublenaught's advice, as this sort of response will definitely NOT help the immediate situation, and you risk finding out just HOW unprofessional this guy really is. Use common sense, do as the officer tells you in the field and pursue proper avenues of remedy for misconduct at a later time, in the proper venue, if appropriate.
 

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Seth,
I would have simply asked him his name and his supervisors name and made an appointment to see him the next morning or as soon as possable. Never become a "smart ass" to an officer. Remember, professionalism works both ways. A similar story here, I had lunch with one of the attorneys that worked with the State Attorney Generals Office one day and he told me that on his way home from work one night, he was at a license check and the officer asked him if he had any weapons in the car. He told the officer that he had a gun in the glovebox (legal in SC) and the cop treated him like a criminal. Gun drawn, hands behind your head, out of the car, etc.. The gun was removed from the glovebox be the cop, using an ink pen as not to touch it. Like it was crime scene evidence. The attorney got a speech about not carrying a gun in the glove box, how bad he was, yada, yada, yada...Then he let him go home with his gun back in his glove box. Next morning the cop was called into the chief of police's office with the attorney setting there. Needless to say, he's now a security guard.
 

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What goes round comes round. Last night, a LEO friend of mine was telling me a story that happened here in MA. A woman police chief was driving to a meeting of the MA chiefs of police association. She was one of the first speakers at the meeting. She was driving a bit fast in her unmarked cruiser when whe was pulled over for speeding by a young state trooper. She didn't really mind the speeding ticket because, after all, she was speeding. However, the young trooper then gave her some lip about how she shouldn't expect any backup from the troopers, the locals were incompetent, etc., etc.

When she got to the podium to give her talk, she started out by relating what had just happened to her. In the audience was the Colonel of the MA State Police. Somehow, I suspect the troopers comments weren't career enhancing. I'm still trying to figure out why he mouthed off to a police chief (who had identified herself as such).

M1911
 

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Regrettably, there are idiots in every profession, including ours. Fortunately, the vast majority of them learn, or they don't stay long.

During the incident, the proper thing would be simply to say "Yes, Officer, no problem," or words to that effect. Try to keep the situation as calm as possible; fools only need the flimsiest of excuses to escalate violence.

After the incident, howeever, is an entirely different story. If you feel that an officer is not doing his/her job properly, or have any complaints about that officer's conduct, you have every right to speak to the officer's Sheriff or Chief of Police and lodge a complaint. If the Sheriff or Chief is not available, at the very least speak with one of the officer's supervisors (Sergeant, Lieutenant, Captain, etc.) and make arrangements to speak to the Sheriff or Chief at a later time. Unless they are complete idiots, they will listen to you, and if they feel that your complaint is valid, they will talk to the officer. If the officer can't give a good reason for his/her actions, they will take the measures they feel are appropriate to correct the problem.

Any officer who draws his sidearm and aims it at someone WITHOUT sufficient cause has no business wearing a badge and a gun. This individual, depending on his/her level of training and attitude, at the VERY least needs VERY STRONG "corrective criticism," and very likely needs to be fired, or reassigned to other duties (i.e., janitorial)with no gun and no arrest powers. Complaining about misconduct by a police officer protects the rest of us from being tarred with the same brush. Also, your complaint must be made as soon as possible after the incident; if the officer's patrol vehicle was equipped with a video camera, his supervisors can check the tape to verify your complaint. Some agencies keep those tapes on file for a period of time (which vaires from agency to agency).

Seth, you were there, we weren't. If you feel that officer's conduct was inappropriate and uncalled for, you not only have a right to lodge a complaint with the officer's supervisors, you have an obligation to do so.

I've been a peace officer for most of my adult life, and believe in "the Brotherhood," but I also believe that we can, and should be held to a high standard of conduct, on and off duty. A problem cannot be corrected if the officer's supervisors aren't aware of it. Making them awre of the problem, and giving them the opportunity to correct it, not only keeps that officer from doing the same thing to someone else, it also protects other officers from being tarred with the same brush. We don't like one of our own making us look bad, and we DON'T want one of our own hurting the people we serve without proper justification.

Stay well,

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Roger Shambaugh
Ottawa, Kansas

[This message has been edited by KSLawman (edited 11-22-2001).]
 
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