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You've got to read this! (1911 accuracy)

25476 Views 5 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  scuba_steve_13.0
From the TheFiringLine.com, the topic was about the 'ole G.I. .45s accuracy. Sorry it long........

Tony, this from a previous post; hope it helps:
The post about 1911 inaccuracy reminded me of a personal experience many years ago...
I was attending one of the original SOT courses taught by former 5th SFG(A) Project Blue Light Operators. All the students were young Rangers or SFers and had brought their issue 1911A1s from home station. These were classic parkerized G.I. pistols... worn, loose, fixed sights, absolutely no custom features. Most of the pistols were older than the troops carrying them by at least 20 years and a couple of wars. The chief marksmanship instructor (a senior Master Sgt and former Camp Perry competitor with the Army Pistol Team) brought up all the same old concerns about "Old Slabsides" (i.e., loose, shot out, terrible sights, incapable of any decent accuracy). He then asked us if we thought that the condition of our pistols would handicap our bullseye or combat firing drills. We unanimously agreed that we would be lucky to hit anything with our old clapped out pieces. He then selected (at random) a pistol straight out of a young Ranger Bn E-5´s holster. After clearing the weapon, he shook it. It rattled nicely. He observed that the pistol did indeed look pretty beat. He then loaded a 7 round magazine, placed the weapon UPSIDE DOWN in his weak hand, using his little finger to engage the trigger, and fired at standard 25 yard pistol bullseye target. Afew seconds later, there was a 7-round, 2" group clustered in the 10X ring (from 25 Yards). He cleared the pistol, handed it back to its chagrined owner, and addressed our rather silent and open mouthed class. "Well..." he said. "I guess if ya can´t hit the targets during this course, it won´t because of your .45". The point was well taken. We learned to assimilate and apply marksmanship fundamentals prior to progressing to the sexy combat firing drills...and we never doubted our 1911A1s again. By the way, all students learned to engage multiple targets out to 25 yards with consistent doubletap headshots using our WWII/Korean War era 1911s. The point of this shooting was to prove that we could do so, not that doubletap head shots were necessarily the best technique with an 8-round capacity weapon. In any event, I have never met an inaccurate 1911A1. The stock pistol is capable of out of the box acceptable combat accuracy (2"-4" groups). The ergonomics are superb. It fits my hand like no other pistol. I shoot it well. The SA trigger pull is consistent and enhances accuracy and speed. It is reliable, simple to field strip, and repairable by the user (in the unlikely event something breaks). The .45 ACP round is ballistically more accurate than the 9mm and provides better stopping power when comparing both rounds in their full metal jacket incarnations. It is not a weapon for the novice (todays DAs are "safer" for the occasional shooter) but, it is a weapon that an expert can wring maximum performance out of. With modern defensive ammo, sights, triggers, customization, etc., the 1911A1 (in its many versions) competes on equal or better footing with any combat handgun (or centerfire competition weapon) out there. I say this as an avowed fan of Glocks, SIGs, and other modern pistols. A "stock" Milspec 1911A1 (such as an out-of-the-box Springfield) provides the shooter with an awsomely lethal and bombproof handgun. And, oh by the way...it conceals better than any other large frame pistol and better than a lot of mid-sized ones (try concealed carry with an M9)


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"They all fall to hardball!"
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I think many people are aware by now that much of the 1911's reputation for inaccuracy came from the fact that most raw recruits had never fired a centerfire handgun before, had no eye or hearing protection, and were completely unaccustomed to recoil. That being said, I will mention that my Colt M1911A1 can easily shoot 1 1/2" 25-yard groups, while my Remington-Rand basically patterns like a shotgun at that distance. All from the same hands, too.

Personally, I consider the above story to be part fact, part urban legend. He may have got all the shots on paper but I doubt the group size was 2"!

[This message has been edited by dsk (edited 05-23-2001).]
 

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i learned in police academy that most guns are more accurate than people. i had ask one of the instructors if he would shoot my glock 30 (compact 45) and see if the sights needed adjusted or if it was just me. we stood at the 25 yard line with a fresh target. he fired one round. i looked at the target and didn't see a hole. i asked him about it and he told me to go check the star (half dollar size circle with a star in it) we walked up to it and there was a hole in the dead center of the star. he told me the sights were fine that i needed to learn to shoot! i believe after that that guns are more accurate than people. (by the way he carried a 70 series gold cup).

as accurate as m y glock 30 is, i still shoot better with my two 1991A1's. my older one rattles, and i laugh every time it does, cause it shoots where i want it to.

"combat 1911's are designed for combat, and work great"

(i haven't mastered that star shot at 25 yards though, i am still humbled!!!!!)

i want my next gun to be an old 1911, i don't care if it says us army on it or not, the cheaper i can get one the better as long as it's in decent shape!

russel the cop


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CHANCE FAVORS THE PREPARED MIND....
 

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There might be over 250,000,000 1911 and related guns in the world. But like snowflakes no two are alike other then generation. And our hands and training are secong to the first. Much more and yet our own two are completely specialized. I sight and shoot right. Right body oriented. And I can shoot ok. Put into 8" at 25yrds with a 2" rated 1911 rapid. Maybe 6" slow a 1911 sinks bad in my opinion and naver is sighted for 50 yrds. like I have seen some state.

aka Redzone
 

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M1991A1, I can't thank you enough.

I only wish this post had been here when I was grappling with a local dealer about 45 accuracy and reliability.

It'll be a happy day for me when I can find a real GI spec frame for my Brazilian slide assembly.

If it don't pass the rattle test, it ain't a 45!
 

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accurate range of the 1911

From the TheFiringLine.com, the topic was about the 'ole G.I. .45s accuracy. Sorry it long........

Tony, this from a previous post; hope it helps:
The post about 1911 inaccuracy reminded me of a personal experience many years ago...
I was attending one of the original SOT courses taught by former 5th SFG(A) Project Blue Light Operators. All the students were young Rangers or SFers and had brought their issue 1911A1s from home station. These were classic parkerized G.I. pistols... worn, loose, fixed sights, absolutely no custom features. Most of the pistols were older than the troops carrying them by at least 20 years and a couple of wars. The chief marksmanship instructor (a senior Master Sgt and former Camp Perry competitor with the Army Pistol Team) brought up all the same old concerns about "Old Slabsides" (i.e., loose, shot out, terrible sights, incapable of any decent accuracy). He then asked us if we thought that the condition of our pistols would handicap our bullseye or combat firing drills. We unanimously agreed that we would be lucky to hit anything with our old clapped out pieces. He then selected (at random) a pistol straight out of a young Ranger Bn E-5´s holster. After clearing the weapon, he shook it. It rattled nicely. He observed that the pistol did indeed look pretty beat. He then loaded a 7 round magazine, placed the weapon UPSIDE DOWN in his weak hand, using his little finger to engage the trigger, and fired at standard 25 yard pistol bullseye target. Afew seconds later, there was a 7-round, 2" group clustered in the 10X ring (from 25 Yards). He cleared the pistol, handed it back to its chagrined owner, and addressed our rather silent and open mouthed class. "Well..." he said. "I guess if ya can´t hit the targets during this course, it won´t because of your .45". The point was well taken. We learned to assimilate and apply marksmanship fundamentals prior to progressing to the sexy combat firing drills...and we never doubted our 1911A1s again. By the way, all students learned to engage multiple targets out to 25 yards with consistent doubletap headshots using our WWII/Korean War era 1911s. The point of this shooting was to prove that we could do so, not that doubletap head shots were necessarily the best technique with an 8-round capacity weapon. In any event, I have never met an inaccurate 1911A1. The stock pistol is capable of out of the box acceptable combat accuracy (2"-4" groups). The ergonomics are superb. It fits my hand like no other pistol. I shoot it well. The SA trigger pull is consistent and enhances accuracy and speed. It is reliable, simple to field strip, and repairable by the user (in the unlikely event something breaks). The .45 ACP round is ballistically more accurate than the 9mm and provides better stopping power when comparing both rounds in their full metal jacket incarnations. It is not a weapon for the novice (todays DAs are "safer" for the occasional shooter) but, it is a weapon that an expert can wring maximum performance out of. With modern defensive ammo, sights, triggers, customization, etc., the 1911A1 (in its many versions) competes on equal or better footing with any combat handgun (or centerfire competition weapon) out there. I say this as an avowed fan of Glocks, SIGs, and other modern pistols. A "stock" Milspec 1911A1 (such as an out-of-the-box Springfield) provides the shooter with an awsomely lethal and bombproof handgun. And, oh by the way...it conceals better than any other large frame pistol and better than a lot of mid-sized ones (try concealed carry with an M9)


------------------
"They all fall to hardball!"
when I first was endowed my 1911, it was to my surprise that at 150 yards it was within 3 inches center. it's always been told to me that it's the operator that controls this factor, but fresh on, it was a constant. I've had various other calibers that would fall severly short of the accuracy of my 1911, and that's why I chose to carry it only. Today, I open carry most everywhere I go, and even when I cannot open carry, it is the best large caliber frame you can get to conceal. Depending on your choice of attire, and choice of mounts, this handgun is nearly invisible, especially in hip or appendix carry. Even when open, the forearm is enough to conceal because of the center of gravity of the fully loaded magazine, and having to carry it butt forward, it falls right in line with your arm. Awesome tool....and ready to use at the flick of a wrist.
 
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