All I can vouch for is what I have I daily carry a Kimber Crimson Carry II that has been flawless.It is 4 in.

 

4" 1911

First, understand that the original design, which is responsible for the legend of reliability, is the 5" platform. If you do some internet searching, you will see that by far, pistolsmiths and armorers who see a lot of guns will tell you that the choice is the 5".

Second, is the question, Why do you want one ? There is very little that you gain in terms of concealment and handling from a 4" over a 5". I would argue you gain nothing. If you can't conceal a 5", you can't conceal a 4". Plain and simple. So why give up reliability to gain an imagined advantage ?

If you must go shorter, the original Commander length of 4 1/4" is a platform that most, if not all gunsmiths can make work. Better yet is the CCO-type - in other words, an Officer's Model grip frame (which is the harder part of the gun to conceal) with a Commander slide.

If your uncertainty is not about concealment, then save yourself some headache and just go 5".

 

First, understand that the original design, which is responsible for the legend of reliability, is the 5" platform. If you do some internet searching, you will see that by far, pistolsmiths and armorers who see a lot of guns will tell you that the choice is the 5".

Second, is the question, Why do you want one ? There is very little that you gain in terms of concealment and handling from a 4" over a 5". I would argue you gain nothing. If you can't conceal a 5", you can't conceal a 4". Plain and simple. So why give up reliability to gain an imagined advantage ?

If you must go shorter, the original Commander length of 4 1/4" is a platform that most, if not all gunsmiths can make work. Better yet is the CCO-type - in other words, an Officer's Model grip frame (which is the harder part of the gun to conceal) with a Commander slide.

If your uncertainty is not about concealment, then save yourself some headache and just go 5".

+1.

The M1911 is the original tilt-barrel design -- the breech end of the barrel is pulled down by the link as the barrel and slide recoil together. This unlocks the barrel, which impacts the frame and comes to a stop while the slide continues rearward.

Now, it must be obvious that as the barrel gets shorter, either the angle of tilt becomes greater, or the locking lugs must have less engagement -- and the latter is unacceptable. So short-barreled tilt-locking guns have steep tilt angles, and this can affect reliability.

That doesn't mean a short barreled tilt-barrel gun cannot be reliable -- but it does mean a lot of sophisticated engineering needs to be done to make it reliable. Many early M1911 short barrel guns were not well-thought out.

As for the utility of a short barrel, it eludes me. I have carried a full-size M1911 for many years and find no advantage to a shorter barrel and slide.

 

+1

It's the grip frame sticking out the top that's the most difficult to conceal. You don't gain very much at all by having an inch less of barrel, and the heavier recoil spring is more demanding on magazines and more sensitive to limpwristing. Some people shoot 3" platforms with no problems, but I'll stick with the full size FWIW. It already has the biggest advantage of all: a relatively flat profile. Just my 2 cents.

 

Generally speaking its 3" 1911's have have a bad reputation for reliability. 4" guns are typically reliable. With that said, everybody can get a bad one once in a while. I've only owned one 4" 1911, a Kimber Pro TLE and it never would run as reliabiliy as I wanted. I traded it for a Colt Commander (4.25" barrel) and its been superb. it will feed anything, including empty cases.

 

The reliability issues associated with short barrel 1911-style pistols are fading to little more than urban legends in the newer shorties,

Flame suit on...

 

Very true! I have a 5" and 4" -- absolutely NO difference in reliability and as for accuracy.....well, it would take a far better shooter than I to tell the difference. At any conceviable combat distance I can hit the X ring with either gun.

 

I have had limited problems with 3" guns, and no problems with 4-4.25" guns. Owned several of both sizes. Still own at least one of each size. And yes, the 4-4.25 commander is easier to conceal abnd carry than a full size 1911.

 

I tend to shy away from 1911 shorter than the Commander. To the OP, have you thought about sending your Champion back to Springfield? They have an excellent CS Department and will do their best to get your pistol to run.

 

I had the Champion back in 2000 and I sent it back 3 times for repair and the 4th time for a refund. I have not bought a Springfield since. I have heard good things about Springfield since, but I don't have the disposable income to take the chance again.

 

Thanks for all the reply's so far. As for the carry thing, I am not really sure how each person is built/ergonomics, but I have carried a 4" (the jam-o-matic I had once) and my current 1911 which is full sized 5" barrel. Maybe it's because I had the shorter barreled one so long ago (back when I first started carrying a firearm in the first place) but I seem to remember it was more comfortable to carry. Might be the passage of time, might be my ergonomics on carry. To be honest, I don't know because it was a long time ago. Part of it is that I already have a 5" 1911 and if I were (doubtful due to lack of funds) get another, I would want to get exactly what I want right out of the box. If I get another 1911 though, if it were to cost a lot more to get what I want in 4" than in 5", I would get a 5". I was just wondering what the opinions are on 4" since my only real life experience with a 4" was bad. Please feel free to post your opinion, that was the point of the thread. Thanks for the reply's!

 

I must respectfully disagree that if you can carry a 4", you can carry a 5". I have several 1911's, four 5" guns & three 4" guns, all Kimbers. The muzzle end of the 5" guns in most all holsters rests in a spot that my hip DOES NOT like. The 4" guns are fine. I can conceal either one. My three Kimber Pro's have been 100% reliable through thousands of rounds. I have had a few of the 3" guns that were totally reliable, too. Just never carried them, the 4" Pro models fill my needs. The only issue I've had with my past & present 1911's was with a 5", locking the slide back with rounds still in the mag, a call to Kimber got a new slide stop on it's way, problem solved. A lot of people do not care for the 4" bull barrel, I like it myself, like the way it takes down better than one with a bushing. BTW, Colt's Commander, 4 1/4" barrel is that length because that's the shortest barrel that can be made to work reliably with a bushing. My opinion only FWIW.

 

The pistol you describe is cataloged by Kimber as the "Pro" version of many of their pistols--a 4" barrel with full-size grip.

I agree with other posters above that this configuration does not gain any advantage for CC as compared to a 5" pistol. I have also handled the Pro size a couple times, and I personally don't like the way they feel--they seem muzzle-light to me.

For CC, I really like the Kimber Compact configuration, which is a 4" barrel and shortened grip. IMO, this is the ideal CC platform.

 

I have always wondered why some makers felt it necessary to come out with 4" guns when Colt had established the viability of the Commander's 4.25" length. What was gained by cutting an additional 1/4" off the barrel and slide?

Dave

 

I suppose that's why there are so many configurations of the old warhorse, people are different! Myself, the officer's frame & Commander slide (Compact), is a solution to a non-existant problem, I have no trouble concealing a full size grip frame, or a 5" barrel, for that matter. My only problem is a sore hip after a couple of hours carrying a 5" 1911. I will continue to blissfully carry my 4" Pro models, as I'm sure ya'all will carry your preference. You guys that like the Compact models, more power to you, but they're not for me. I enjoy shooting both 4" & 5" guns equally, both are reliable (for me), shoot them equally well, or poorly, on any given day. Like I said my opinion only, but I have carried almost daily for forty years, so I have figured out what works FOR ME.

 

The muzzle end of the 5" guns in most all holsters rests in a spot that my hip DOES NOT like.

Try changing the carry position or the holster.

I make my holsters wide to spread the pressure, and that greatly lessens the problem.

 

Thanks for the advice, Vern, but I am actually quite content carrying a 4". I feel the only thing I'm giving up is a small bit of bullet velocity. I actually think the 4" guns are the perfect proportions, too. I have a box full of holsters of about every description, the most comfortable being a "Nelson" or "Avenger" style that rides pretty high, almost too high. It actually is a little difficult clearing the holster (gun is way up under armpit by the time I get it out). Used to not be a problem, but as I get older, I don't move anything as well as I used to. Great discussion, & I like hearing everyone's opinion, though.

 

The original "Commander" with a 4 1/4" barrel came out many years ago. It utilized a slightly modified spring and the original GI guide rail. This was done to preserve the integrity of the design of the pistol. The frame however was no different than the full size.
After a few years more Colt created the "Officer" model which shortened the grip by 1/2" and, if memory serves me correctly, it used the "Commander" slide/barrel.
Enter the "smaller is better" school of thought and barrel/slides being cut down to 3". Each manufacturer came up with their own alteration to the spring guide system and for a while nobody could get it right and these little pistols got a bad rap for reliability.
I have never owned a smaller version but it appears that the kinks have been worked out and that many now consider them just as reliable as the original.
I am 5'8" and a Commander slide is my primary carry.....not because it conceals better but because for my 5'8" frame it is more comfortable, particularly when seated. This Commander slide rides atop of an Officer frame which does, in fact, conceal marginally better. To my way of thinking any "shortie" that does not have a smaller frame which gives it an advantage in the concealment category is not worth the reliability risk and will be harder to shoot as the shorter barrel will jump more and be slower to get back on target.
I am fairly sure that the new Colt Defender uses the "Officer" frame and would like to beleive that the other makers are doing the same. Les Baer, among others, offers this configuation in his Stinger model.
All that being said.......I know I shoot better with my full size than my Stinger and am reconsidering carrying it because the few times I have tried it I have had no noticeable increase in "printing".
Long story short.....each to his own. If, in fact the "shorties" are now as reliable as the original (which may still be open to debate) the question comes down to which is easier to shoot well.....3"......4 1/4" or 5 ?????

 

Perhaps I'm the oddball but I love 4" guns. I've got a couple of 5" guns that shoot lights out. Boringly reliable but I like the balance of a 4" gun better for practical shooting where I'm not trying to shoot small targets. I conceed they are probably not as reliable as my 5" guns. Of the five 4" guns I have two that were a nightmares during break-in. Once my Kimber and Baer broke in though they were fantastic.

Interestingly enough, both my Champions have been fantastic. Neither had a problem until one started double feeding at around 6k rounds. SA replaced the barrel and extractor and it's been golden since.

Another oddball point for me is that I think the CCO is about the best 1911 carry option for me. That 1/2" reduction in grip on my Stinger keeps the gun out of my hip, helps conceal, and saves the leather on my car seat.

Good thing there are lots of options for the oddballs.

 

4" or 5" concealed carry

This question is somewhat subjective, since everyone has different body shapes and sizes. My concealment choice is often made due to the weather here in Florida. I have many different guns for many different types of weather. When it is extremely hot and humid, where I may only wear a golf shirt, I use the smallest 1911 gun I own, which is a Star Firestar M43 in 9mm. I use a hip carry leather holster and use +P JHP rounds. The gun holds 7+1, and the barrel is roughly 3.25". It is an all steel construction, but due to it's small size, it is much lighter than a 5" steel gun, yet heavy enough to have good control under recoil. It has good combat accuracy, and I feel comfortable shooting a man sized target out to 25 yards aiming for center mass.

When the weather cools down, I can pretty much conceal nearly any 1911 handgun, since I may be wearing a light jacket or sweater. I may even wear a vest, if desired. My Woolrich vest I use for IDPA is often worn in the fall and winter here in Florida. For concealed carry, I may use anything from my .38super carry comp (slighlty shorter slide than a standard 5"), to my Commander .38 super, or even my full sized 5" guns from Colt, STI and Paraordnance. I shoot all of these guns on a regular basis, and they all have excellent reliability. I wouldn't even consider a gun for concealed carry if it did not have 100% reliability with the defense loads I use.

There is no reason a Commander length 1911 can not be 100% reliable. If you like the balance and feel of the shorter barrel, go for it.

 

My only experience with a 4" 1911 is with my Kimber Stainless Pro Raptor II and it has performend perfect since day one/round one.
Jack

 

SOX45, don't know what you're gonna' take away from all this, except some of us like a 4" (Commander length) & some of us want nothing but a 5". Guess we didn't help you much!

 

i carry a fs most of the time but when i dash out i carry my 4in rock and
i have to remember its there comfy and accurate

 

Earlier this year I purchased a "loaded" Springfield Champion. It has over 400 rounds through it without any feeding or ejecting problems.

 

When concealed carry first came to our state myself and a few friends spent a fortune trying to get the best combination to carry concealed.I carried an all steel Clack Kimber for years not a problem,until a couple of surgeries and some blown discs in my back, lightweight 4/in with full size grip conceals well for me now.There was a disturbance in the neighborhood a couple weeks ago and the Trooper looked at my wallet in my front pocket and asked if that was a gun.Then I slowly pulled my shirt up and showed him my 1911.I said all that to say this,I have never been made as far as I know carrying either a 4 or 5 in with full size grip.I do prefer the 4 in now.

 

I've got a foot in both camps, here in SW Ohio I can carry a five-inch RIA most of the year. Late spring thru early fall I carry a Kimber Pro Carry II. The RIA sits in a Don Hume strongside Avenger-style holster, the 4" PCII in a Kirkpatrick Yaqui-Slide. Both guns are 100% thru almost 4,000 rounds.

 

I carry an STI Guardian or a Bill Wilson carry compact CQB, both 4" when wearing tucked shirts , as in going to work, or driving a lot. The extra inch with the 5" pinches my rear with IWB with the truck seat in the 4:30 position I use to carry. I have several full size, and will carry them when out at the ranch, etc., when my attire allows, when able to carry OWB, or can carry less concealed with the larger grip and bigger belt.

I have had no trouble with reliability with either. NO failures with either. Both are accurate well beyond my target abilities. Weight wise, I see no real advantage to the 4" pistols over the 5". I do have a Commander also, but prefer the Officer sized grip of the STI and Wilson for concealment.

I wouldn't worry about the 3" bbl length if it's a Colt Defender. The wife has one for a purse gun, too. No failures of any kind. I have had failures with Springfield Compact and Kimber 3", and sold them. When I need a lighter pistol in warmer weather, I sometimes carry the Defender 3" (SS/alloy). Particularly when sailing or at the lake. My pants stay up better with the lighter pistol with a smaller belt.

The Defenders have been absolutely reliable as well with about 1-2k rounds through them. It is not the nail driver the STI or Wilson are, but then again, it's not a competition target gun, and I'm not a competition target shooter. I do shoot better with 4"ers, and even better with the 5"ers, but with a much lesser percentage of improvement if that matters at 21 feet.

Good luck with your decision. It's been a long trail to find what works for me. I hope your trail is shorter, but just as much fun.

 

Which one looks like it gets carried more? Both are 100% reliable