When working out back of the house cutting a trail, I usually have my Government model on me or in the Kubota. It’s loaded with Buffalo Bore 255grain, hardcast boolets. The few we’ve run into over years have run off when run into. The only time we had a pucker factor was when hunting and we found ourselves on the trail between a sow and her 3 cubs. Glad to be carrying the 308. Had it been beat season or she rushed us, we’d have had a good go at her. Thankfully the cubs scampered past and they all took off. 🙏

 

45 ACP ball for griz…like taking a Yugo to the drag strip. But if that is the parameter, at least respring and flat bottom firing pin stop it for 45 Super. Use a ‘solid’ or ball loading.

 

I hate to read how your life ended with an empty mag. See you on the news and get the definitive answer on the question

 

So it appears that suitability of the .45 acp round for defensive use against Bruins is debatable. However it also appears that we have somewhat of an agreement amongst at least some of us that the round itself can be greatly improved upon with this end in mind. Probably not the ammo that you are going to find on the shelf at the local gun store IMO.

 

I’m wondering what people feel about carrying the .45 ACP with Ball ammo in grizzly country?

I have taken varmints with it one shot stops.

Not trying to be difficult, but the second comment does little to qualify it as "bear load"....in my opinion.



I've never had to defend myself against a bear, so I'm largely speaking from ignorance.


I feel as confident shooting a 1911 as I do any other type of gun....in terms of getting hits quickly on target while under stress, however, I simply feel like 425 ft-lbs of energy isn't enough to get the job done when hits are made.




230gr ball would work out just fine to shoot yer hiking partner in the leg to hobble them....so you can ease on away from the bear......

 

I worked up 230 gr. Flat nose lead bullet loads at 1000 fps from reloading data from AA for carrying in black bear country. Those loads caused some rail galling on a cast frame but worked well in my forged frame Colts. I used a 22 lb.. recoil spring. I do not think that FMJ RN is great for black bear, much less so for grizzly, honestly.

 

This thread reminds me of a video I watched years ago about a homeowner using a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs to stop a Grizzly with limited success.

The point I’m making is regardless of caliber, the 1911 is inadequate for self defense against a Grizzly/Brown Bear.
It may have some effectiveness against a Black Bear of medium weight and size.

 

Fortunately there are no Grizzlies/Browns where I live, only black bears. The local hiking reports are full of recent encounters with bears, and in every case it either ignored the hiker or ran off. When I go hiking I'm much more concerned with bipedal predators than I am with anything four-legged, although cougars are something to keep in mind.

If I were to go where a Grizzly/Brown attack was a possibility I'd bring my 12 gauge if at all possible. If a handgun it'd be nothing less than my Model 29.

 

Man, I love this cartoon!!

 

Living in black bear country, I'd vote for the hard cast FP bullets from Buffalo Bore, or a similar hand load, if toting a .45ACP 1911 for bear protection. Having worked in a Griz country hunting camp for several years I guess my choice would be the same, IF limited to a .45ACP. For the latter situation I took something bigger into the montains BTW, as well as a Marlin .444.

 

Shot placement is everything! Can’t kill anything if it isn’t hit solid, and I’ve killed five bears (4 black, and 1 brown) in my lifetime.

Michael, just curious and wondering if you could elaborate a bit ? My son lives in N-Hampshire and his property backs up to national forest lands. He has had Black bears on his yard several times with a rather large one just strolling up the driveway. Luckily he was out playing ball with one of his Labs and luckily it was his very well behaved male that just did what my son asked (Blue,in the house !) instead of going after the bear, there would have been no stopping his female if she had been out.

So, what do you consider the prime target zones on a bear ? I would think eye’s, nose, open mouth, chest, but I have zero experience.

I used to carry a SA XDs 45 but realized that yes I could shoot the bear but just hitting it with not enough accuracy with the XDS to make any shot placement, add in a little adrenaline and just hitting a bear would be difficult.

Having bears in their yard isn’t real common but not rare either, they had one carry of their bird feeder off that I told my daughter-in-law was a bad idea, but she’s smarter than me and doesn’t appreciate my gun ownership, but that’s another story!

 

Michael, just curious and wondering if you could elaborate a bit ? My son lives in N-Hampshire and his property backs up to national forest lands. He has had Black bears on his yard several times with a rather large one just strolling up the driveway. Luckily he was out playing ball with one of his Labs and luckily it was his very well behaved male that just did what my son asked (Blue,in the house !) instead of going after the bear, there would have been no stopping his female if she had been out.

So, what do you consider the prime target zones on a bear ? I would think eye’s, nose, open mouth, chest, but I have zero experience.

I used to carry a SA XDs 45 but realized that yes I could shoot the bear but just hitting it with not enough accuracy with the XDS to make any shot placement, add in a little adrenaline and just hitting a bear would be difficult.

Having bears in their yard isn’t real common but not rare either, they had one carry of their bird feeder off that I told my daughter-in-law was a bad idea, but she’s smarter than me and doesn’t appreciate my gun ownership, but that’s another story!

My one bad Brown Bear encounter happened the summer after I moved up here. It was ‘bear season,’and I had a hunting license, but I’d just taken the trip out, to a local lake, to sit and think. My dad had sent my Colt H-Bar Flat Top AR which I’d picked up at our local gunshop, and which I was really fond of, so it was what I had. I parked my ATV under a tree stand that had been active a week before during the bear bait season, but the bait had been removed in anticipation of the close. I sat down overlooking the lake with my back to a tree, and heard a twig snap behind me, and spun around to look. A large Golden bear came up out of a brushy bog behind me—I found out later that it probably heard the sound of my ATV which it equated with fresh food at the bait station. The bear paused behing a tree when I spun around, and I decided to shoot if he came around the tree about 15 feet away. He did, and it all happened very fast, but I managed to put a 55 gr Barnes X bullet right up his nose. It pole axed him! He had all four feet doing the moon walk in the air, but before I could blink, he was back on his feet, and barreling off in the brush. I tracked him for about a mile that day, and went back the next day with a spray bottle of hydrogen peroxide and bathroom tissue to mark blood spots. Real blood foams up with peroxide. I found where he ran straight into trees, probably blind with blood in his eyes. I know he didn’t survive without a face, but Perhaps I shouldn’t say “I killed him,” because I was not able to recover him after two days of tracking. I found where he’d slept, and bleed out considerably during the night, but completely ran out of blood trail the next day. What trail I had in the morning was just droplets of vapor which I spotted on my hands and knees with the peroxide spray.
I don’t tell people about this much because I was woefully undergunned, wounded him, and wasn’t able to recover him. On the flip side, I wasn’t hunting him, and my AR did stop his aggression with one shot at about 15 feet—I’ll let you play the judge on this one?!
We’ve had far more encounters with cow moose in the years since. My daughter was chased on her four wheeler, my son and I have been chased into the house, and one time we had a moose that tried to stomp our German Shephard on the front porch. Moose and bears have been killed here by people with handguns, even 9mm handguns. Yes, a shotgun with slugs is probably the best choice, but it’s hard to carry with the other arm full of firewood. My 1911’s seem to be easier for me to shoot accurately, but I’ve also got two .44 mags. Most of the time I’ll slip my Ruger Police Service Six (loaded with 180 gr hardcast Keith’s) into a coat pocket if I’m going in and out of the house. I simply shoot it, or the 1911’s, better than the larger caliber magnums.
My first bear was shot with a .45-70 in Idaho. My second, a very large brown phase Black Bear, was taken with a 6.5 Swede. I generally hunt with a .340 Weatherby today. If I had to shoot anything defensively today, I’d aim for the nose / between the eyes. A bear, or moose, is going to loose interest in an attack if its face is broken up, and if you do penetrate to the brain its “lights out!”

 

Has anyone tried something like a Lehigh penetrator bullet in 45 Auto.

 

Yes,
Jury still out on those…but they show promise.
The 200gr over a dollop of CFE Pistol maybe.
///

I once got into a tangle with a two thousand pound bull.
He had me cornered in a corral and
had already crippled me up a bit.
I shot the rascal in the forehead with
a winchester ranger 230gr hp at spittin’ distance.
he shook his head and slung a lit’l snot and backed off’n me.
We finally ran him in the big squeeze chute,
the base of that 45 hp was showing through the hair.
Pulled it out with a pair of pliers.

Let’s just say I don’t recommend
hollow points for that kind work.
A solid like the Lehigh would be better.

///

 

I’m wondering what people feel about carrying the .45 ACP with Ball ammo in grizzly country?
PLEASE, PLEASE no the 10mm or whatever other caliber is better. I’d like this to be debate free, I’m interested in finding out what folks think of the power, penetration of Ball. I have taken varmints with it one shot stops.
Again I DON’T want a caliber debate. Let’s keep it to the question, thanks.

I'd say go for it. Get flat points if you can. But standard ball is ok.

Just make sure you've got a 4.5"+ barrel.

 

A bear, or moose, is going to loose interest in an attack if its face is broken up, and if you do penetrate to the brain its “lights out!”

If it doesn't get to the brain it's lights out is 100% on the button. The only way you are going to stop a bear charge and that's what we are discussing, the only shot that will stop a bear is a brain shot. So will a 230gr FMJ ball ammo penetrate the skull or as Mr Cuber suggested up the old nasal cavity ? Based on my experience shooting domestic hogs in the head with a .22 rf then I would have to say yes it will perform that task. Shoulder shots, heart ,lungs none of it matters, you'll be doll rags before he bleeds out. As always it comes down to shot placement, If you shoot a .45 app more accurately than a more "powerful" cartridge then use it.

 

Interesting thread... I slept next to Houghton Lake (Michigan) Sunday night. I was dozing off about the time the fire was down to embers. At some point in the early morning hours I was woken up by the sound of something making a grinding noise. There was a gentle breeze from behind me and the sound of the waves made it hard to "see" in the direction of the sound. In the morning my wife asked me if I saw what ate all the dog food in the bowl that was about 10 feet from me all night. I had no clue. I figured it was a Racoon or Skunk. I wonder if it was a Bear? We have Black Bear in the area. Good thing I had the trusty old 1911 in my holster.

Jon.

 

Thanks everyone, some interesting points.
I’m happy with ball for most everything, but we are in grizzly country & hunting grouse with a 20ga is great fun. I’ll probably continue to carry the 1911, later in the year hunting Elk, probably switch to something a bot more powerful.

 

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www.buffalobore.com

 

That is an interesting load for those who want to stay with 45 but need less recoil...I generally use 230 gr 45 HST for SD in the home, almost an inch expanded, except in my small XDs where I tone it down to 185gr golden saber and it does indeed help with recoil reduction.

 

I’m wondering what people feel about carrying the .45 ACP with Ball ammo in grizzly country?
PLEASE, PLEASE no the 10mm or whatever other caliber is better. I’d like this to be debate free, I’m interested in finding out what folks think of the power, penetration of Ball. I have taken varmints with it one shot stops.
Again I DON’T want a caliber debate. Let’s keep it to the question, thanks.

So, If it delivers "one shot stops" on this:

Then it should "stop" this:

 

Thanks everyone, some interesting points.
I’m happy with ball for most everything, but we are in grizzly country & hunting grouse with a 20ga is great fun. I’ll probably continue to carry the 1911, later in the year hunting Elk, probably switch to something a bot more powerful.

Brenneke makes a decent 20 ga slug, consider carrying a few in your pocket as well.

Magnum™ | Brenneke - Ammunition

www.brennekeusa.com

 

Brenneke Green Lightning in 20 Ga is an alloy slug for deep penetration; my son and I carry them when we are out grouse hunting here in Eastern Alaska

 

So, If it delivers "one shot stops" on this:

Then it should "stop" this:

The idea is to keep the critter from killing you. and a .45 just might "turn" the bear away. It's not necessarily about killing it, just turning it away. Several ball (or the load I linked earlier) would tend to do that, I'd think. You get smacked in the noggin several times, and you might "turn away", too. I think that's why bear/handgun situations in Alaska work so well (90%). Just turn the critter so it goes elsewhere. If it runs off to die, so be it. As long as it isn't you.

 

IMHO 45acp is not enough for big bear defense. But, Black Hills does make their Honey Badger ammo in 45acp.
Should be aquaduct for blackies.

 

 

The idea is to keep the critter from killing you. and a .45 just might "turn" the bear away. It's not necessarily about killing it, just turning it away. Several ball (or the load I linked earlier) would tend to do that, I'd think. You get smacked in the noggin several times, and you might "turn away", too. I think that's why bear/handgun situations in Alaska work so well (90%). Just turn the critter so it goes elsewhere. If it runs off to die, so be it. As long as it isn't you.

 

damn 45 mm cameras…

 

Shake, rattle, and roll!

 

Enough about bear guns, can we talk about religion or politics?