Not just 9mm, 9mm using hard cast ammo. I can't recall who he said the manufacturer was. That was a good episode.

 

I'm going to guess Buffalo Bore.

Jon.

 

The full context is, and he tried to say this a few times, but Ron kind of talked over him each time, "...but I wouldn't recommend it."

@Levian there is another episode where he talks about best bear guns and still another one where he is discussing ammo selection. There is also a recent episode from Ultimate Reloader where one of them went on a grizzly hunt -- he used a 30-06 -- and again he talked about ammo selection. Then there's Chuke's outdoors and he recently went over best guns and ammo for bear in Alaska. Time and time again they are recommending heavy, hard, non-expanding bullets that will reach the vitals.

Yesterday, I was looking something up on the 338-06, and I came across a brief paragraph about Woodleigh bullets. I remember seeing a Woodleigh catalog a long time ago, but I dismissed the brand because they were mostly for heavy, thick African game. Now I see the connection though. If facing a storming cape buffalo or a charging grizzly, a shooter will want something that penetrates all that muscle and sinew.

...I don't know how I ended up watching all these videos -- all in the last 2 weeks. Bear is not high on my list and I doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to go on a guided hunt for grizzly anyway. It is entertaining.

 

Luck doesn’t really surprise or impress me.

 

That’s really crazy. I carry a 10mm for Black Bear defense. I couldn’t imagine 9mm.

 

Out of all the pistols that I actually own, if I was going into bear country I'd carry my S&W .41 magnum (I'd leave my 10mm 1911's at home) as backup to one of my .308 rifles or 12 ga. shotguns loaded with slugs. For practicality, ease of carry, and quick maneuverability, I'd probably carry my Remington Tac 14 with slugs for bear country. I like my NHC 1911 10mm with Underwood Ammo for humans, but, a bear is a lot bigger, heavier, and tougher than any human. And I don't plan on becoming dinner for any bear or human cannibal.

 

I will listen….

But that’s about it. 10mm or .357 Mag for me in black bear country.

 

I first read Phil Shoemaker’s articles in Rifle or Handloader magazines in the early 2000’s before going Elk hunting in NW Wyoming Wilderness Area’s. He and his family have a lot of experience with Brown and Grizzly Bears. Through experience and testing his thoughts on protection from Big Bears is heavy solid, flat point bullets traveling at least 1000 fps. You need that to penetrate a Grizzly’s skull, as a hollowpoint will expand and follow the contour of the skull. I guided/packed the Thorofare River Wilderness area for three years for Hidden Creek Outfitters, our camps were at and five miles from the Southeast corner of Yellowstone. It was a 30 and 35 mile horseback/mule ride into our camps and we had to deal with Grizzly Bears on almost a daily basis, especially once we started having Elk/Mule Deer carcasses. I carried a 357with 180 flp or 44spl/44mag 265 fpl solids. I never had to fire a shot in my many bear encounters but fellow guide used 357mag Buffalo Bore bullets to put a charging Grizzly down to be finished off by his hunters. The bear was on a Elk carcasses they they had lost a few days earlier. I always carried a rifle if we had to go back to recover a carcass we were not able to pack back to camp. Phil Shoemaker is a very knowledgeable and interesting guy, if your interested look him up.

 

Fascinating vid!!! Thanks!

 

If I was still guiding/packing in the Thorofare Wilderness area I’d be carrying a 1911 10mm loaded with Buffalo Bore hard cast lead flat point or an equivalent hand load with a recoil tested crimp. The 10mm and 45super have become very popular and effective in Grizzly country. I’d also have a Crimson Trace laser grip as they worked very well for me for shining stubborn bears in their eyes and yelling to run them off. If you load your own Buffalo Bore uses Rim Rock bullets which bought the old Montana Bullet company, they usually have them in stock. Laser worked on the Wolves also.

 

The only "pistol" I'd really trust against a bear attack is a short barrel AR in 308.

Thankfully there isn't any grizzlies near me.

BTW, the 308 pistol is on my build list. Next year, hopefully.

 

It would seem no one carries 44 Magnum any more or a modern pistol in 45 Long Colt. ?

Guides up there carry 10mm Glocks, and that has a success rate on such huge bears ?

I'm all ears, I do not have personal knowledge of stopping bears. Now 9mm...no, I'm not taking faith on that for bears but anyone dumb enough to pack a 9mm in bear country has my prayers.

 

It would seem no one carries 44 Magnum any more or a modern pistol in 45 Long Colt. ?

For me, it depends on where I’m going. Known areas of small black bear it’s .357 Mag or 10mm. For medium to large brown bear, I’m packing my S&W 629. For any of those calibers, it’s usually in a chest holster.

 

Well the feds are going to transplant Grizzlies into the North Cascades here in WA over the next few years. It's only a matter of time before a family of hikers or campers become lunch. Since I hike there often I'm now thinking about what I should pack. My Model 29 is way too big. I have a bunch of .357s, and perhaps my little 4" Rossi would be a good choice. Otherwise I may have to think about getting a 10mm. Since we're not allowed to shoot anything more than ten times here it may have to be a Delta Elite or Razorback.

 

Every zoo is a petting zoo, if you're not a sissy. I can cross wild black bear off my list. But I've only touched tame grizz.

Keep in mind, bear sprays biggest advantage is your lack of hesitation to use it. As it's mostly harmless, and reminds bears that we are to be feared.

With a pistol, you have to weigh:
-is it a harmless campground bear, just used to having people around.
-is that a bluff charge?
-are you in danger at all? Is it your fault.

Blasting away at a rare, innocent creature is going to ruin your day. No such worries with spray.

 

Blasting away at a rare, innocent creature is going to ruin your day. No such worries with spray.

Unless you're actually downwind and get the damn stuff in your own face.

 

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about Phil and his use of a 9mm on a bear. At the time it happened he was taking a man and his wife on a fishing trip. He was carrying the 9mm because it was easy to carry and it left his hands free for dealing with fish. clearly he was not expecting to run into a bear in a very bad mood. The bear was standing over the couple and sideways to Phil when he shot it. He was in the perfect place to be able to shoot the bear and those shots to reach vital areas. I think the whole point of the story is not that a 9mm is a bear weapon but rather if that is all you have with the right ammo it can get the job done. If he felt all that was needed was a 9mm pistol he would not carry a 458 almost all of the time. I say almost all the time because as I write this he is carrying a 375 weatherby. Not just any old 375 but Hal Waugh's famous Big Nan. I know this to be true as I loaned him Big Nan for this season.

 

Remarkable comment about soaking oneself with bear spray and expecting that to deter a bear. Not sure that passes the smell test but if it does, doesn't mean bear just decides to kill you and not eat you. Sprays don't resonate. Pistol does and if those now in bear country count on semi auto 10mm and its effective, then its meaningless if its a Glock or 1911.

Some may question the 1911 platform in wet miserable conditions but that would be unwarranted concerns. If it can do well in SE Asian monsoon 24/7 downpours as mine did, have no concerns about it in Alaskan weather. I kept it clean as best as conditions allowed and it was lubed with LSA medium, carried in M3 shoulder holster and pistol as wet as I was and that was all the time. The pistol always operational and dependable.

Is the Glock 10mm platform better suited for wet & cold Alaskan conditions over a S&W 29 revolver? I think I'd lean for the Glock 10mm. Those who guide or hunt up in Alaska , kindly post your thoughts.

For myself, owning 3 different barrel length SW 29 and a Ruger Blackhawk , all in 44 Mag : there was a time when big bore caliber meant a revolver for hunting or back up in bear country. Frankly, I think all my revolvers are antiquated and semi auto pistols always a better option today. Years past, semi auto's were not trusted fully in 50's thru 70's and revolvers thought to be more reliable. That old mindset is in the rear view mirror rightfully so.

 

Buffalo Bore has yet to sell the 147gr hc at 1300fps ammo , only a 1100fps load with the 147gr HC bullet ! I would save he's lucky the bear did not charge him . The story could be very different .

 

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Well the feds are going to transplant Grizzlies into the North Cascades here in WA over the next few years. It's only a matter of time before a family of hikers or campers become lunch.

Un necessary governmental agencies using translocation tactics and dumb humans that want to share the environment with predatory animals doesn’t work out well in some circumstances. Seems like dumb and dumber to me.
Especially, with unarmed back to nature types.

Woman who scared off a grizzly bear on a Montana camping trip was killed when it returned later and attacked her in her sleep, investigation finds

Leah Davis Lokan, 65, was killed by a grizzly bear during a camping trip in Ovando, Montana, last year.

www.businessinsider.com

 

Unless your livelyhood depends on it...he's a Registered Guide.

 

Phil has said he misspoke from memory and the load was doing 1100. That came from what is on the box.

 

Well, it beats only having your dick in your hand, but carry the biggest sidearm that you can.

 

....but carry the biggest sidearm that you can.

...that you can shoot accurately and get quick, controllable follow-up shots with.

 

Just take a fat friend who can't run as fast as you can!

 

I was wondering why I was suddenly getting all these invites to go to the woods.

 

As we've aged, our ability to shoot our beloved 5" Model 29s, with the 300gr. LBT load, has deteriorated to the point that we no longer will depend on them when travelling in big bear country. One of them was pretty much our constant companion for the 5 or so seasons we worked in the Wyoming Range and previously. That was 15 or so years ago, and our ability to hit fast and accurately with the big .44 is not what it once was. We've switched to a 10mm Guncrafter No Name; 6" barrel in a Govt. length slide, shooting a 200gr hard cast LBT style bullet. Figure it's better to be able to put hits on target in a timely manner than to fight the extra horsepower of the .44 Mag. You gotta' know your limitations.

 

A local Eskimo hunter in Wales AK took a ten foot Polar Bear with a 22LR rimfire with one shot behind the ear at 20 feet. Killed it instantly.

Another one pictured;
1953, Bella Twin killed the largest grizzly on record with a duct-taped single shot .22

I'm going with CCI Mini-Mag 40 grain solids.

 

@Che - There are at least two documented cases of airmen falling from aircraft at 15k - 20k feet during World War II, without a parachute, and surviving. While fascinating, were I in such a situation, I think I would still insist on a parachute.

 

Vesna Vulović was a Serbian flight attendant who survived the highest fall without a parachute: 10.16 kilometres (6.31 miles) or 33,330 feet. SOURCE

 

Play the probabilities ("chances"), if someone thinks their best chance in killing a bear in SD is a 9mm no matter how hot, good luck, better 'dan nut'n.