My dad was using 231 / HP 38 for everything back in the 80’s and 90’s. Bullseye will work well for your “mid-range” loads as will HP 38 if you are not concerned with achieving the highest velocities.

 

Book loads will be fine.
BUT you must be careful because there is room for a double charge of maximum Bullseye. That demolished a gun on the range here.

 

A powder as fast burning like Bullseye or TG would be my last choice for 357.

 

Kent, what would you use with 125 gr XTP HP's?

 

H110 or W296 are probably the best choice.

 

Deleted1

 

Accurate #7, HS-6, or something in that range should do the trick well enough, CFE Pistol might be another good choice, but Bullseye and 231/HP-38 might be a little fast for that long of a case. I'm not a real fan of the 125s, but lots of PDs and others liked them a lot back in the olden days.
With the powders you mentioned, I'd be most inclined to use the HP-38 rather than Bullseye, it's slower by a good margin and that's a good thing. I rather like stuff at least 140 gr. worth in a .357.

 

Bulls Eye and HP 38 are not optimal, but there is .357 data available for Mid-Range loads with these powders.

 

I use a lot of Bullseye but with lead bullets. I like 2400 for 125gr pistol loads. You can slow it down and still clean. I do have W296 and H110 but use with my 357 J.M. Marlin. Titegroup is excellent if you can stand the crud. 4227 works good also but a little flakey for me. Unique is a really good choice of powder also. I have a 19-3 19-5 and a 586 no -.Here's a 50 yard 125gr. I use mag primers with this load. I think I used a Remington bullet and not a max load.

 

I use a lot of Bullseye but with lead bullets. I like 2400 for 125gr pistol loads. You can slow it down and still clean. I do have W296 and H110 but use with my 357 J.M. Marlin. Titegroup is excellent if you can stand the crud. 4227 works good also but a little flakey for me. Unique is a really good choice of powder also. I have a 19-3 19-5 and a 586 no -.Here's a 50 yard 125gr. I use mag primers with this load. I think I used a Remington bullet. View attachment 687216
load my 19-3 likes that wont beat the gun up.

That is some seriously good shooting. Nice work!

 

Quick burning powders behind light projectiles have a tendancy to cut forcing cones on J and K frame S&Ws. Have used Unique for about 50 years with 0 issues. Hotter .357 Mag. loads using 2400 in a 6”+ barrel is very good.

 

I agree with USARV72 100%. Titegroup burns hot in the "normal" ranges, it would be extremely hot at maximum in your .357 Magnum loads. I've used 2400 for decades in my "Magnum" level loads and not found any disagreeable traits. AA#9 would be another choice. W296 will give you maximum velocities but expect a recoil to match. Low to mid-range .357 Magnum powders, HS-6 or AA#7 will do the trick. Save your Bullseye for your .38Spl and .45acp target loads.

Grumpy

 

Bullseye is fine for 357 as long as your not making 357 Magnum power ammo. I shot tons of it in 357 and 44 Magnum. But none were magnum level loads.

 

That’s it Exactly!
Given the OP’s situation, I’d use those components, visually inspect each charged case, and realize that “Mid-range” was the target goal from the beginning!

 

I used a charge which gave about 800-835 fps for 148 grain lead full and 158 grain semi wadcutters, respectively. Both lead from a 6” barrel. Charge was around 3.3 - 3.5 grains, IIRC.

 

I've been loading the 125 JHP in the 357 Magnum since 1976. In fact, that's all that I've ever shot in the 357. I load them to between 1350 and 1450fps. I have NEVER tried to use a fast burning powder like Bullseye or 231 (HP38). Today, my favorite powders for the 357 are medium to medium/slow burners like #7 and Longshot. I've recently started to try some Winchester 572 with the 125 JHP in 357, and I've had good results. I used to use Blue Dot back in the day, until that became a no-no. I also used HS7, until that was discontinued. I'm not looking for 1800fps maximum velocities, so I've never experimented with the H110 and 296 loads.

Case fill is a big deal in cartridges like the 357 and 44 Mags, and the 45 Colt. Fast powders leave too much empty space, and weird things can happen, not to mention the possibility of a double charge occurring, which is a really bad thing. The 357 is a high pressure cartridge, rated at 35K psi. It needs a slower burning powder to work efficiently. Fast powders pressure spike too quickly, which restricts their usefulness in large cases and high pressure calibers. Things became very clear to me when I educated myself years ago about the relationship between powder burn rates, cartridge pressure ratings and case volumes.

I'd save the Bullseye, HP38 and Titegroup for the 38 Specials, 380's and 45ACP's. They work great in those calibers.

 

. I used to use Blue Dot back in the day, until that became a no-no.

I remember Alliant sent out a warning about 2 lots of B-D that were somewhat faster burning than the norm. And a memo to stop using B-D in the .41 mag and I had many e-mail exchanges with them about that.
I also remember a memo to not use B-D in .357 mag with 125gr jacketed bullet but never did find out why as I don't load them, but I'd assume it had to do with the burn rate. I've used B-D with 158~170gr hardcast, which is my main .357 bullet. And I didn't get any B-D from those fast lot #s.

 

I have been loading 357 since 1974. We have a bunch of 357s including 4 lever actions. The 125 grain JHP Remington has been my favorite for all times. It will shoot 1.25 moa in my Marlin lever action.

If you want a wimpy load, don't waste the powder, load them into 38 Special cases. But then the 38 Special does not really get any of them fast enough for a great mushroom, the 357 does.

I load for the 2.5, 3, 4, 6.5, 16, 18, 18.5 and 20 inch barrels. To me it is a total waste to down load the 125 grain JHPs. If I want a light load I use the158 grain cast which I load to only 1,125 fps from the 4 inch guns, a nice load.

I have 8-9 powders that work but the very best is H110/W296, load to the lower of the range listed in the manual if you want and you will still get great velocity. I also have Silhouette and CFE that I use occasionally but they do not add anything really. You can also use HS=-6, Universal, Green Dot , Universal, ors my favorite for medium loads, Unique. If you can find it.

Bottom line is I use 2 powders. H110/296 the exact same powder, for everything hot, pistol or rifle or Unique.

On thing I would add, with these powders it does not matter if I am loading for my 3 inch or my 20 inch Rossi, the 110/296 is still going to be at the top of the list or one of the top 2 or 3.

Stay with the manual and you will be safe.

 

Yes, 2400 (original small flake), and the new Ball-propellant Olin 296/Hodgdon 110 were allegedly developed for the high-velocity 110gr bullet from 16in barrel if the M-1 carbine, which is why I'm so adamant to point out it works best in longer (the better) barrels. I believe you can get better velocity out of a 3in barrel with less thunder & lightning by using other, slightly faster powders.

That's why I went to Blue Dot in most of my magnum revolver loadings in .357, .401, .41 and .44 magnums. It's ok with slightly reduces 'mid-range' charges but does not like to be compressed much. H-110/W-296 does not like to be reduced much and works best with compressed, full-power loads.
I don't have a chrono anymore, but I believe I can get higher velocity at supposed lower pressure, and use a bit less powder in the process. 15~16grs B-D vs 20~22grs 110/296!
And they work well in my revolvers from 4in to 8 3/8. And I noticed a big difference in the fireball and concussion if not felt recoil vs 2400 or 110/296.

 

I use a lot of Bullseye in the 357 Mag, but I only shoot cast bullets.

A favorite load is 6.0 grains of Bullseye, with bullets cast from the RCBS 38-150-SWC and/or RCBS 38-158-CM molds. CCI pistol primers. 1.600" overall cartridge length. An upper moderate load with some snot, but certainly not a max load. Cases eject easily, and primers are normal. Best part is that it's my most accurate load in my 686 & GP 100.

Works for me, may not work for you. Try at your own risk.

 

I am very surprised there is a legitimate loading manual load shown for Bullseye powder in .357 Mag. Not doubting your info....just surprised. I hope you'll be shooting it in a quality S&W or Ruger revolver.

 

Bullseye is a much better powder for .38 Spl and there are several loads shown in the Hornady manual for it. The OP would do better and not use 125's in his M19-5, but stay with heavier bullets, 140 grain or more. The 686 would be better, it doesn't have an undercut forcing cone, but flame cutting would still be an issue under the top strap. All that said, I've had two M19's and two M66's over the years (since the late 1970's), and the early ones I owned the longest got a steady diet of magnum load 125 JHP's with no issues to the forcing cone, but there was noticeable flame cutting under the top strap. I've yet to see a top strap fail from flame cutting, you'd have to really beat it long and hard to cut one deep enough to risk fracturing it, but Murphy loves to hang around uninvited. 125's wouldn't be too bad with a slower powder and no more than .38+P power level. They make an excellent magnum SD load because you can really ramp up the velocity, and at short range (20 yards or less) they carry more energy than a 158 grain, but they bleed off the velocity faster than the heavy bullet and lose energy at longer ranges. I never noticed much difference in recoil between the light and heavy bullets when shooting magnum loads, and accuracy was little different from a 4" barrel. Nowadays I save the heavy magnum loads for my N frame .357's. I only shoot .38Spl+P in the K frames at the range, but my EDC (2-1/2" M66-1) gets 158 gr JHP magnum loads for carry.

 

I use 2.7 grns of Bullseye in 38 Spl . HBWCs for my Colt Mid Range, very accurate just wish I could shoot like I did in 73. Heres few 357 Mag loads from back in the day.

 

That 125 gr data was a pretty spicy Bulls Eye load back then, and the .44 Mag data from that manual is flat scarry!

 

Thats the number 11, have to dig out my number 9 as number 9 was known for having HOT loads.

 

I gave up Blue Dot in the mid 1980s. I prefer 2400 for full magnum level shooting. For the 357 Magnum I always considered the 125 for “bad guys” and 158 for hunting.

Currently I have W231 and 125 and 158 XTPs. So we will see what comes off the Reloading Bench.

 

Alliant shows Bullseye in .357 with 158 gr bullet just above .38 special but a 110 at 1400 fps. No 125, but I am sure there is data somewhere. Just have to avoid the double charge.

 

Bullseye is the very worst powder to select for a magnum load - in anything.

HP-38/W231 is a far better choice for a mid range load, but no more than that.

Unique is a bit better for a bit more velocity, but it's not a magnum powder. It's not called flammable dirt for nothing.

I prefer 2400 for 357 loads, but I also use H110/w296 with great success.

 

Blue Dot is a great Magnum powder. It is good as long as you don’t drive it too hard. Once you drive the pressures up beyond standard magnum loadings the flame temps get hot and erosion becomes an issue. A gunsmith set my barrel back the first time on my Security Six 357. When I went to pick it up after repair the first thing he asked was, “What powder are you reloading?”. I told him mostly Blue Dot. He strongly advised me to use a different powder. Observing the barrel breechfaces on my two 44 Magnums I noticed similar but arrested cutting since the Blue Dot loads are used on there were ‘standard’…not maximum as on the 357.

 

296 was actually the powder used, as you said, by many ammo companies for magnum ammunition. The would even use competitors’’ powders…because what mattered was how well the ammo performed. My magnum class powders (handgun) are Blue Dot, 2400, and H110. For my standard 44 Magnum load uses 240 grain JHP (Rem SJHP) is a dandy, my favorite really. Other makers make great bullets also. I use 15.5-15.7 grains of Blue Dot, whatever the powder measure is throwing that day. In my 5.5” Redhawk it shoots 1275 - 1300 fps all day every day…depending on powder lot and usual other factors. Last time I chrono’d it, SD. were typically single digit. And it does add to the breech face erosion. The 7.5” Super Blackhawk throws it 1370-1385 fps. Both guns are very accurate. With a scope, I made 7/8” and 1 1/8” groups off bags at 75 yards with the Super.

Want a treat, check out the Speer reloading manual. The have what I call ‘pop gun’ loads. Officially they are gallery loads meant for short range and indoor gallery shooting. They just go “pop” when you shoot them. A black powder ball, forget which which goes about .433” diameter, and a small charge of bullseye. Check the load specs it has been awhile. You’ll typically be able to watch the bullet under right light conditions. BUT…low power/low pressure equals a dirty sooty gun to clean. Don’t worry, bore will not lead up.

 

Lot's of good info here, although some simply doesn't apply to the OP's situation. So first thing, we must know what the OP's use of these 125 gr. bullets will be! Target? Hunting? Self/home defense? Something to impress newbies or your friends with a big boom and lots of muzzle flash? It all makes a big difference.

For target work, just about any of the faster powders will work just, including Bullseye, WW231 (my favorite), Unique and a whole bunch of others. It's just a matter of finding the best accuracy with the different powders.

For hunting you will want the best velocity and powders such as WW296, H110, AA#9, 2400 and 4227 will shine here. In more ways than one! All of these powders have horrendous muzzle flash! This, in my opinion, makes them totally unsuitable as self/home defense loads!

For the self/home defense loads, I generally go for medium burn rate powders, or powders such as IMR 4227 loaded to mid range velocities. Personally I've found a load using the 135 gr. Gold Dot at around 1200 fps that produces no visible muzzle flash (this bullet was designed for the .38 Special). Push it up a few grains and the muzzle flash returns. These muzzle flashes are bright white and blinding for a few seconds, not the orange or red flash you might get from a flash supressed powder! The intense, brite white muzzle flashed produced by the best (highest) velocities (296, H110, 2400, etc) are ok for day time shooting outside (hunting, even target) but not so much for the potential indoor, close range encounter of self defense!

If you just want to impress people with your Magnum pistol, it's hard to beat 296 or H110 (supposedly the same powders these days but not true way back when!). The bright white muzzle flash and blast that go along with this powder is indeed impressive!

Just as a point of information, using very old data with new powders is not a great idea, at least not without carefully working up a load. Powders change over time and it's easy to exceed normal pressures without being careful and knowing what you're doing!

As to the flame cutting of the top strap of a revolver, it has been known for quite some time that it never goes beyond a certain point and is nothing that will compromise the strength of any revolver. That didn't stop Ruger from discontinuing their 30 Carbine Blackhawk, and admittedly doesn't look great but in reality it doesn't hurt a thing and unless you're worried about the looks of your revolver, is nothing to worry about!
Cheers,
crkckr

 

While flame cutting the top strap into pieces may not be a reality….one does need to be careful with a shorter cylinder and the neighbors next door!! 😆

 

I like heavy bullets in some cases.

They don't take a lot of powder

 

"If you just want to impress people with your Magnum pistol, it's hard to beat 296 or H110 (supposedly the same powders these days but not true way back when!). "

I wasn't trying to impress anybody but the day I tested another batch of development 240 grain loads, several stopped and looked at the me then walked over to look at my chrono. Average velocity...1508 fps.

 

Its the look thats priceless!!!
The dood with the 380 wont even give you a look though.....he just packs up and leaves as his girlfriend in tow asks 20 questions......