[Chuck556]

I understand AA#9 is on the slow side but would like info about slower burning powders or in the same range. I've installed barrel comps on several pistol 45acp---38Super---9x23 Win. I've been told that slower burning powders have more effect upon recoil reduction in a comp than faster powders.
I'm new to 1911's after having to carry a Glock 40cal. on duty for the last 15yrs and before that a Colt .357. I've found it to be a pleasure to shoot and a heck of a lot more accurate than the Glock and more comfortable than the 357mag.
Any info would be helpful.
Chuck556

 

[stillwater]

I've been told that slower burning powders have more effect upon recoil reduction in a comp than faster powders.

The answer may be a little more complicated...slower burning powders of different types are used for different reasons. Magnum loads in large bore pistols are frequently set up for slower powders for instance. Some powders that aren't all that slow (like Universal Clays) actually have a "nice" recoil feel as opposed to say, Titegroup which though it has a similar burn rate has for some people a more pronounced recoil feel. One powder, HP38, which actually is rather faster than Titegroup has a "sharper" recoil feel that most people can attest to...thereby tending to reinforce your earlier statement. I believe the best way to work with loads is to test several different ones ("borrow" a bit of this or that from a trusted friend may save you some $$ if the powder does not appeal to you). That way you will find something that works uniquely for you and is repeatable. Some people never really stop experimenting (I am guilty of this but it can be rather rewarding) but others get their "favorite" load and just stick with it (a'la Clint Smith). Hope this helps a little.

Bon Chance

 

[xring45acp]

Hp-38

1+ with STILLWATER, I use HP-38 for most all of my assorted .45 rounds and tried Titegroup with the same results in both 4.25" & 5". Officers is next as I will expect it needs a little faster burn rate for the 3.5" barrel.

 

[RickB]

Slower-burning powders create more combustion gases to "drive" the comp, than do fast powders. I don't own any comped guns, but I load for 10mm, and have found that Ramshot Enforcer is very similar to AA #9 in performance.

 

[superdude]

i'm relatively new to compensators, but run a comped 45 and 38 super. yes, the conventional wisdom is that slower powders produce more gas (larger charge of gunpowder) and this helps to run the comp. i've tried a couple of different loads in the 45 and with fast burning powders (231, Vit N320) there's little recoil compensation, but a heavier charge of a slower powder (Longshot) does have a noticeable effect on muzzle rise. bullet velocity was about the same for both powders.

i've run 3 powders through the 38 super with good results. Silhouette, Vit 3N38 and Vit N105. the 3N38 is the cleanest of the bunch (i think), and both it and N105 make lots of noise (compared to Silhouette) and feel more similar than Silhouette (to me). they all 3 have a pronounced effect on muzzle climb. Silhouette uses a lower powder charge (the fastest of the bunch, and the cheapest) and seems to work well for me. i like them all, and they do feel a bit different from one another. experienced shooters say that you have to find a powder and bullet weight that feels right for you. i can attest that the difference in gun "feel" gets pretty subjective when trying different loads in a compensated 1911 when tested at the same time, so i can't say that one is better than another, just a bit different. all these powders are likely much cleaner burning than #9. Silhouette is actually the old Winchester Action Pistol, and Winchester showed it in their loading manual for maximum velocity loads in 9X23, which i also use it for. a compensator has a greater effect for the 9X23 and 38 Super than for the 45 in my experience, but the 45 still benefits from reduced muzzle climb with a comp. i once asked some experienced comp shooters how many ports that a 45 could benefit from (it may not benefit from lots of ports like a 38 Super) and most suggested that 2 ports is all that is really needed for the 45. i have a 3 port comp on mine and have not yet made the plunge to cut one off to test their suggestion, and probably won't. its runs fine so i won't mess with it.

good luck! you'll have fun testing powders no matter what you try. a comped 38 Super (or 9X23) is a fun gun to play with, and a comped 45 isn't bad either.

 

[richpetrone]

Comped guns

Slower burning powders may produce better gas, but there may be some negatives if the powder doesn't burn completely. The unburnt powder can be very abrasive on the comp and the barrel. I once shot out a .38 super barrel and comp after 18,000 rounds with a slow burning Accurate Arms powder. It was either AA#9 or AA#7. It's pretty easy to check your rounds to see if the powder is burning completely......just set up a white paper target, back off about 3 feet distance, and fire a round. If you see black specks all over the target, this is usually an indication of unburnt powder.


I now use IMR SR4756. I have used this powder with 115gr up to 130gr jacketed bullets with good accuracy. I use 9.0gr of SR4756 with a 115gr JHP .355" Zero bullet, and get very good accuracy in my IPSC race gun. My race gun has a hybrid barrel and comp, so you may want to work up a load using less powder to start if you try this combination. The load I use is very high pressure, so small rifle primers are used to help prevent primer flow back. The load is not recommended for standard .38super barrels. All of my .38 super barrels are aftermarket, and fully support the case head up to the extractor groove. I also use this load for my .38 super carry comp gun. The load is ballistically similar to a .357 magnum, but the comp drastically reduces muzzle rise and felt recoil. Even though it is an angled, single port comp, it does a good job to enable quick follow up shots.

 

[RetiredRod]

Some powders that aren't all that slow (like Universal Clays) actually have a "nice" recoil feel as opposed to say, Titegroup which though it has a similar burn rate has for some people a more pronounced recoil feel.

While I agree with the majority of your post, I must disagree on your statement that Universal Clays and Titegroup have similar burn rates. Titegroup is a "fast" powder, while Universal Clays is a "medium" speed powder. Per the relative burn rate chart on www.handloads.com, Titegroup is #5 and UC is #21. Not similar burn rates at all.

 

[tsp45acp]

To make a comp work---slow powders to make massive amounts of gas, and light bullets to negate the effect of recoil having to move standard wgt or heavier bullets for the given caliber.

Example for 45 acp, 165 or 185 gr bullets and medium to medium-slow powder. I've found that Power Pistol is one of the better powders fpr 45acp and hot loads. Tracy

 

[WESHOOT2]

tested

I understand AA#9 is on the slow side but would like info about slower burning powders or in the same range. I've installed barrel comps on several pistol 45acp---38Super---9x23 Win. I've been told that slower burning powders have more effect upon recoil reduction in a comp than faster powders.
I'm new to 1911's after having to carry a Glock 40cal. on duty for the last 15yrs and before that a Colt .357. I've found it to be a pleasure to shoot and a heck of a lot more accurate than the Glock and more comfortable than the 357mag.
Any info would be helpful.
Chuck556

For comped: 45 ACP (no, not mine; customer): Power Pistol.

38 Super: N350.
9x23: N350.

I still have a 'bit' of WAP. Ramshot Silhouette is WAP, except it has enhanced flash suppressant and temperature reduction; data is completely interchangeable.
Also superb in .355" bores.

 

[stillwater]

While I agree with the majority of your post, I must disagree on your statement that Universal Clays and Titegroup have similar burn rates. Titegroup is a "fast" powder, while Universal Clays is a "medium" speed powder.

You are correct. Titegroup is a "faster" burning powder than Clays...my intention was relative comparison. I agree it could have been taken entirely literally (this is where I was wrong to choose this example I guess). Clays is not what one would call "slow" so I was using it as an example of a "moderate" burn (where I felt "Titegroup" kinda falls...) Titegroup is fast but not as fast as HP38 (which I find a mite too fast for me...). The upshot is that you are correct and I probably shouldn't have used the example with such a large burn bracket. Thanks for straightening that out.

 

[RetiredRod]

Titegroup is fast but not as fast as HP38 (which I find a mite too fast for me...).

Stillwater, not trying to pick on you, I'm just anal about some things:

On the referenced burn rate chart, Titegroup is #5 and HP38 is #10, so one might infer that TG is twice as fast as HP38. (Isn't HP38 the same as W231?)

 

[stillwater]

Stillwater, not trying to pick on you, I'm just anal about some things:

On the referenced burn rate chart, Titegroup is #5 and HP38 is #10, so one might infer that TG is twice as fast as HP38. (Isn't HP38 the same as W231?)

Yep, right again. HP38 is slower. (my bad)....it is too HOT for me...I will head for the coffee maker now....

 

[WESHOOT2]

yep

W231 = HP38 (exact).

'Clays' is NOT 'Universal Clays'; there are three 'Clays': Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays.
"Universal Clays" burn rate is virtually the same (almost, but not exactly) as Unique.


I have numerous rate charts; none are the same. Recommend inferring nothing.

 

[Smythe]

I have read that while Winchester 231 & HP-38 look the same one should be reloading only on HP-38 or 231 suggestions. Not picking on you Weshootz, but that is my reading & not my knowledge. Think it came up around a year or two ago on reloading? Though I will agree they look darn well the same. Crumbs often the same make of powder will LOOK different if made at different times. For instance I supplied some 231 to my best shooting friend & later on he still needed the same so I did the same only this time I had opened up a new large container & that is when he noted the difference. That had me wondering!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TheGerk]

W231 = HP38 (exact).

'Clays' is NOT 'Universal Clays'; there are three 'Clays': Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays.
"Universal Clays" burn rate is virtually the same (almost, but not exactly) as Unique.


I have numerous rate charts; none are the same. Recommend inferring nothing.

Don’t sweat it Tim, I see the same thing.

All of my charts differ to, maybe because they are all listed either “relative” burn rate or “approximate” burn rate. Which lends some accuracy to the burn rate reference.

Many things effect burn rate, caliber and cartridge design, and case sizes and shape effect burn rate.
There is also the misconception that the numerical listing is linear.
Nothing could be farther from the truth, some powders may be listed as 49 or 50 on the charts but in particular loadings 50 could easily behave ballisticly like 42 on the chart.

I tend to look at the burn rates more in terms of groupings of speed ranges than the specific.
Somehow though the charts seem to be helpful at times.

(Rod, I caught that HP38 faster than titegroup thing also, thought TG was faster :scratch:
made me go look to)

 

[WESHOOT2]

no sweat: total agreement

Exactly; "relative".