I picked this up at a local gun show, and its a complete mystery . Obviously, it has been re-blued, but there is no sign at all that it has ever had a serial number in the frame where one is supposed to be. There is a serial number on the other side that looks hand stamped, and also by the firing pin is the same serial number. It shoots great, and that’s all that matters to me, but I am curious why it never had a serial number under the United States property marking ?. Someone at the show said it probably was a employee take home from the gun from the colt factory. I am not subscribing to that theory, but I am curious what you all think.
Colt mystery m1911A1
Baptist Preacher
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I picked this up at a local gun show, and its a complete mystery . Obviously, it has been re-blued, but there is no sign at all that it has ever had a serial number in the frame where one is supposed to be. There is a serial number on the other side that looks hand stamped, and also by the firing pin is the same serial number. It shoots great, and that’s all that matters to me, but I am curious why it never had a serial number under the United States property marking ?. Someone at the show said it probably was a employee take home from the gun from the colt factory. I am not subscribing to that theory, but I am curious what you all think.
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I think the original number was ground/filed from the frame. A lot of material has been removed in the refinish.
The number stamped on it now is well outside the range of a M1911A1, and I don't think a commercial slide should have a serial on it, so, yeah, it's a weird combination.
The number stamped on it now is well outside the range of a M1911A1, and I don't think a commercial slide should have a serial on it, so, yeah, it's a weird combination.
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I have done extreme diligence in inspecting the area where the serial number should be, beyond a doubt it has not been filled in. There is no sign of welding, grinding, or any manipulation. I do not believe it has ever had a serial number added at the factory. The US property marking is crisp and original, and below it, It is perfect. So it’s definitely a mystery to me.
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Agree with Rick that gun has been ground and polished so hard the real serial number is gone with the wind. So are assembler and factory inspector's stamps. Your hand covers the area for the army inspector's stamp. The only mystery to me is why the scrubber left the USP.
Slide serial number is 1931 commercial.
Slide serial number is 1931 commercial.
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Underneath the US property markings, there should be a serial number. If it was ground down, there would be an indentation, or it would be deeper at the minimum. If it was welded back up, it would have ruined the US property markings. I’m 99.9% positive there was never anything under the US property markings. Weird. I got it at a good price and it shoots great so I’m totally happy just a little bewildered.
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I think it comes down to how deep are the serial number stamped in the frame. I have three other World War II 1911s, and the serial numbers are stamped just as deep as the US property markings. It’s obviously been polished up and something is goofy for sure. Lol.
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Fonts on the frame don't look correct as does positioning of property marks. Compare with a known GI pistol. Chamfered hole also does not belong. As long as it shoots and you enjoy it who cares?
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Where is the "United" ? Are the grips just super oversized or is the word "United" missing? Too many edges that should be fairly square are rounded off.
Grumpy
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Looks like a bad melt.
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Just a really bad refinish job.
maybe they mixed up the bench grinder and the buffer??
as long as you got it really really cheap (way under $300) and it shoots.
maybe they mixed up the bench grinder and the buffer??
as long as you got it really really cheap (way under $300) and it shoots.
OP, your gun for %100 sure had a serial number under the USP marking...it was filed/ground off. Someone then took a Colt Commercial slide from 1931 and hand-stamped the serial number from the slide onto the frame on the other side of the gun.
It also looks like after they ground down the serial they chased the existing USP and M1911A1 markings to make them deeper.
It also looks like after they ground down the serial they chased the existing USP and M1911A1 markings to make them deeper.
The gun you're using as a reference is a Remington-Rand; they had a different font than Colts used, which is what the OP's gun is. They are not comparable. You would need to find an early war Colt to be able to do a correct comparison.
Not sure if you're being serious about the tisas and high end manufacturers or not...
In this case it's dished because the gun was ground and then severely polished/buffed within an inch of it's life. That will dish out all the holes. You can see it on the sear/hammer/thumb safety pin holes as well.
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I had an Inglis HP pistol that had its original 500 meter rear sight. Had never been refitted with the brazed on rear sight adaptation, and was way to clean to have ever been issued out. Serial numbers were all mismatched, but parkerizing on all parts was the same. No import marks or Chinese Characters—the only thing I could figure is that it went home a piece at a time in a lunch box or coat pocket—it does happen!
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I agree with you, and if it could be restamped as well as the letters look in the photo, why not restamp the serial—don’t think it ever had a serial!
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I just keep on learning...
The font for the property marking and model ID do match a 1945 Colt that I have. The SN on mine is cut slightly deeper, so polishing that off and not the other marks would leave a noticeable depression in the metal.
They very much match the 1943 Colts that I have; due to the G marking on the frame that was fortunately NOT ground off, I would guess that frame started life as a commercial frame that was remarked and pressed into service. It's a shame this gun was defaced, as it would have been worth a lot more given how infrequently a G marked frame comes up in USGI M1911A1s. I would guess that frame was ripped from the commercial line and probably repurposed around 1942?
Having close ups of the sides of the trigger guards, the rear of the frame where the crossed cannons would be, and by the mag catch where the acceptance cartouche and P proof mark would be, would be helpful too. Those grips are much larger than the as-issued ones and might need to come off to see all the markings.
The M1911A1 US ARMY and USP markings are much, much deeper than the 3 samples I have here which is what lead me to believe that whomever ground the frame down remarked them, very deeply, so they wouldn't be ground off. It could also be a trick of perspective...the dishing around the letters from the overpolishing could also make it look a little distorted and deeper than they really are..
Edit - the markings also match my 1944 Colt...the M1911A1 US ARMY font style is very specific to Colt on this one. I don't have a Singer to compare it to, but I do have a very early Ithaca (sub one million) a very late Ithaca (2.6+ million), and a Remington-Rand somewhere in the middle, and the M1911A1 US ARMY marking does not match any of those.
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The frame went home in someones lunch box!
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