Too bad it isn't Series 70

 

Easy to "fix". And I would.

 

That's why they invented spacers.

 

I will have to keep an eye out. I would not mind having one myself.
At seven bills it is a no brainer.

 

Not going to happen. Ruger SR1911 sells for about $900 new.
I am not going to buy one that leaves extra one for someone else.

 

I have been wanting to add a 38 super to my collection. Might have to pull the trigger on one of these.

 

I guess I would buy one if I wanted a super. Crap shoot is the frame to slide fit. (It could be perfect). Nice to see it before the money changes hands. Sort of a painful thought peening rails on a new gun. Not that it affects practical accuracy. It doesn’t.

Colt may still use an unramped barrel on their supers. I have not tried an unramped super. Must work fine though.

I always wanted a Colt in .38 super. I have never come across one so I don’t own one.

 

Unramped-barrel supers work well. RIA makes one that's kind of hard to find, but it runs like a sewing machine.

 

I'd bet the frame/slide fit is going to be on the better side. The Classic I got last year and the Comp before that are very nicely fit.

Felt a brand new EMP 4" Ronin this evening...it was surprisingly loose and rattled, for a Springer. The 2018 Loaded I picked up very lightly used is very decent fitas is my 2019 Loaded.

 

I built a 38 Super on my 1943 RR frame it rattles for sure but barrel to slide fit is right on so the accuracy is very good. I call it the Rattler put some custom made Rattlesnake grips on. A bad puppy cocked and Locked. 1911’s Forever

 

.38 Super… now there’s a round and Colt made! Yes Sir!

 

Man I wish they put the caliber on the slide instead of "Automatic Series 80"....but I'll probably still but one if I can find it for a decent price.

 

Too bad it isn't in .45 ACP.

 

Why would one want a slow , weak and fat caliber over the mighty Super?

 

I've been on my FFL's waiting list for a super months now. Still waiting.

 

I’ll be picking up one of Colts new 38 Supers. Just another Colt 38 Super to Hotrod!

 

Very nice holster!!!

 

Colt knows which caliber is best for its Model O

 

Colt isn't really that great, ok, it has the pony and it's a Colt but, compared to other 1911s in that price range it isn't anything special. I just sold a new 45ACP Combat Commander that I wasn't impressed with. I have a 38Super in a 5 inch, nice gun and caliber. I handload, that makes a big difference when discussing calibers. I can load a 9MM pretty close to a 38Super, close enough that I doubt someone could tell the difference if shot by both. So, I may be sending another 9MM to Bar-Sto to get a 38Super barrel fit to a 9MM Kimber Pro-Carry. I don't have a good reason! And don't start with me, it's a lot better fit and finished than that Combat Commander was. I just got a Ruger SR1911 commander and looking it over I am impressed, haven't shot it yet. I have 2 Gold Cups and those are fine weapons and a Competition that I like, so I'm not a Colt hater by any means.

 

So, what do you call close? To me 150FPS is close. If I load to 1300FPS then that is close to 1450FPS. Actually, I like a 357Sig more than either 9 or 38Super but it's hard to find a 1911 in 357Sig. A 9x23 is a bit hotter than 38Super also. Look, I like 38Super, I'm just saying it isn't the super round a lot of folks seem to think it is, maybe back in the day!

 

You make a point. We get really picky about small increases in power. For shooting paper and steel at 25-50 yards it does not matter. My support of the power increase that comes from 150 fps is not just the 8-10 percent increase in speed but the actual increase in driving power of the same bullet on people or animals.

A 130 grain bullet has these power levels

1,100 fps 349
1,200 416
1,300 488
1,400 566
1,450 607

Small increases is speed cause big impacts at impact. I like 357 level power, about 500 fpe. A 5 inch 38 Super gets there easy, a 4 inch 40 SW gets there easy. Lots of choices. But few with 9 mm and they are harsh in small guns.

FWIW

 

I have never been a big fan of the 9mm except for the range, cheap to shoot and virtually no recoil. I suppose I was thinking about the cost to change a 9 to a 38Super. I have done that and for the difference in performance I'm not sure it's worth the cost to me. I am a firm believer in doing something right if you're going to do it. So, my Dan Wesson PM9 was sent to Bar-Sto for a 38Super barrel fitted. I am very happy with the results and that pistol will be with me until the parties over. But it would have to be a special pistol to do that again. And there are other calibers that are very good defense rounds, 40S&W, 357Sig, 45ACP, 400Corbon and let's not discount the old stand by 357 magnum. The only advantage any defense round has over a 357 magnum is capacity, 6 or 7 rounds verse 10 to 17 or 18 rounds.

 

I have a bunch of 9mm around here, little ones, middle size, big ones and the Keltec fold up carbines, Sub2000, across the room in a backpack. But like you I do not get excited about the round. I have plus p plus ammo too but I often wonder if the next round will put the top of the slide into the roof. I do not think about that with any other round.

I carried in harms way many times the 38, 357, 45 and 9mm, often with ball ammo. Multiple units and multiple assignments and I was young. and dumb, we trained under the rule that every target was a 2 round shoot and most would take more. I still remember a special agent shooting course. We were taught that two torso hits with a 38 gave us a 90 percent probability that the attacker would stop shooting. And only three good hits should be placed on a shooter before we moved on the next threat. We are about 45 years later, I gave tested ammo for an an ammo company once, and thousands of rounds for my own benefit, killed well over a hundred deer, guided people or been there for a hundred more, and I do not claim to know much more about stopping power than then. EXCEPT, I do know that the rounds you mentioned plus the 10 mm, make very big and very deep holes. And big and deep holes interfere with everything a body might want to do.

I have written many times on here about the 400 Corbon, loading and carrying it since 2010. That round should have been standardized. Equal to the 10 mm with small fast bullets, and bottleneck, you cannot make that one fail on a feed ramp. lol. I load the 135 grain to about 1,400 fps. Not for the recoil shy.

The super is just a gentleman's round, cool and calm recoil, but all business. My 10 or 400 with a 135 grain bullet is harsh on the back end, a 38 Super with a smaller 130 grain bullet at the same speed, 1,400 just seems to be a pleasant round with all the thump where the bullet lands. Sound nuts? Maybe so, I just enjoy shooting it and it is the most accurate 1911 I own or have fired, period.

So, I agree with you completely on what works, you nailed it. I just have this bias for the Super. I have even been known to launch a few from from 357 wheel guns. May even have one converted to take moon clips, I like them so well. Gotta go, time to get back on the meds.

 

I used to carry Georgia Arms 38 super. 124gr Gold Dots at 1350 FPS. My Colt LW Commander loved them.

 

I used to carry Georgia Arms 38 super. 124gr Gold Dots at 1350 FPS. My Colt LW Commander loved them.

I’d like to try some of that Georgia Arms ammo. They’ve been around for more than a few years now and have good reputation.

 

Hopefully I can find one in a store to check out. Colt quality is too inconsistent to order online.

 

Dan Wesson CCO 38 Super

 

The easy answer is people who have a Commander size already and have ran them across the chrono. Anybody?




So lets hurry and get some range reports on these.

Dangit....I have a post somewhere with my commander in .38s testing two factory loads....

Seems that Under Extreme Defender 124gr was in the 1160-1190 fps range.

 

And that is my point. That is 9mm velocity and power. I have ran factory ammo through my 5 inch and it gets within about 25 fps of what they claim. That puts me about 100 fpe above a 9 mm, it is huge if power matters, but you need that extra 3/4 to 1 inch barrel. Modern powers are optimized, son you really cannot gain much by trying different burn rates. Just depends on how much power you want. If the power is flexible, then dropping to shorter barrels or even 380 makes a lot if sense.

 

EDIT - corrected Underwood avg's

5" 1911 in .38 super:
-Underwood 124gr jhp
1339, 1303, 1284 = 1308 ft/s avg 471 fpe
-Winchester 130gr fmj
1210, 1203, 1209 = 1207 ft/s avg 421 fpe

4.25" 1911 .38 super:
-Underwood 124gr jhp
1246, 1241, 1235 =1240 ft/s avg 423 fpe
-Winchester 130gr fmj
1162, 1133, 1136 = 1143 ft/s avg 377 fpe

 

That is pretty darn good, only 50 fpe loss to the shorter barrel. When Lucky Gunner did their 9mm testing they rated the Ranger 9mm plus p plus as the best in velocity. A little over 1,200 fps with the 127 grain bullet in a 4.22 inch barrel. So, a hot 9 mm is about the same as a 38 Super if you go to the shorter barrel, which was my experience.

Neither Lucky Gunner or BBTI did a study on the 38 Super so there is no direct comparison. Do you have a 4 inch 9 mm with similar ammo? Keep in mind that the Berretta M9 has a 4.7 inch barrel and the Nato standard is a 124 grain bullet at 1,200 fps. So you get into that 45 VS 9mm discussion.

Which is, if you are shooting naked people which is better, the 9mm at 1,200 fps or the 45 at 870 fps?

The next question is, what if the attacker is a 400 pound wild boar? I had one of those nearly run me down while calling turkeys once. I shot him with a 3 inch 12 gauge magnum load, he ran off, never did find him. lol

The Underwood load you tested still has 433 fpe at the muzzle of the shorter gun, that works for me, but I will stay with my 5 inch for woods carry. That extra 50 fpe and 68 fps is going to open up the JHP a little faster and bigger and should give deeper penetration.

All in all, we just decide what works best for us for the anticipated need for that day. For years, my 1911 woods gun was the 400 CB. Since I bought the 10, it goes more than any. That said, unless I go on a trip, there is no bear risk or anything big. My highly accurate 38 Super with the 5 inch barrel and your Underwood ammo is getting 471 fpe, not much cannot be stopped with that, and there are hotter loads on the market. The Buffalo Bore has 3 different loads that get over 500 fpe with the 5 inch barrel. 38 SUPER +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Ironically, now with new powders, it is pretty easy to get nearly 600 fpe with the 40 SW and 155 grain bullets, that game has changed simply because of a couple new powders on the market.
38 SUPER +P Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Everything we knew about powders and pressures what we could do with this or that round 5-10 years ago has changed, hard to keep up. That said, I may carry a 9 mm around town, but if I think I might need real power, I want a single round hits the first pit bull, wild hog, or armed robber with 357 mag power, about 500 fpe. I can get that in my full size 45, full size 38 Super, a 4 inch 40 or any 10. Just my way of thinking.

I probably spend more time where cell phones do not work, so that is probably why I want that extra power. City people do not really have that risk, so it would not matter to them. It is all academic anyway. Any gun and ammo you have will, probably work. That is why so many people carry the Glick 19, lots of ammo and you just keep shooting until the threat goes away? Right?

I just happen to really enjoy the Super, basically no recoil and hits hard a long way off.

 

So roughly - it looks like .38 super can deliver the same or slightly higher power in a 124-130 grain round at ~1200 ft/s versus a .45 230gr round going 900 ft/s, with a fair amount less recoil.

Now I have to test some .45 Underwood in 5 and 4.25 guns.

 

I do have a 4" 9mm EMP4 with Underwood Extreme Defender 90gr and also some Speer LE 124gr Gold Dot.

Will that work?

 

EMP4 4" 9mm

-PMC 115gr fmj
1124, 1114, 1111 avg 1116 and 318 fpe

-Underwood Extreme Defender 90gr copper monolithic
1408, 1370, 1358 avg 1378 and 380 fpe

-Speer LE jhp 124gr Gold Dot
1053, 1015, 1028 avg 1041 and 293 fpe

Funny that the pmc bronze 115 has more energy but the jhp is going to do more damage so those two numbers may not compare favorably in flesh conditions.

 

Well I was going to do some .45.....but I have to clean something up first. My empty and weighted down above ground pool couldn't handle 35-40 mph winds. Oops.

 

Should have had water in it!

 

I really like the .38 super. Seems to feed and eject just fine. Never tried a double stack. I guess I would want .38 super comp for that.

Very hard for me to believe that 9mm anything could be loaded (safely) to match a full house super load. Super seems to get there fairly effortlessly.