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Does your Para hammer drop from half-cock position?

3.1K views 8 replies 6 participants last post by  kankakee  
#1 ·
I've seen that with the P13-45 that if one pulls the hammer back very slightly it places firearm in the so-called 'half-cock' position, but I have noticed that it will indeed drop down from there to lightly strike the firing pin merely if one pulls the trigger.

Have any of you noticed this with your Para's?

More importantly, is this normal for the firearm?

I was just surprised that it would drop from that position.

What purpose does half-cock serve with the P13-45 or more generally with all Para? I seem to recall that with the CZ-75B in .40 that if you squeeze the trigger while gun is half-cocked that hammer will be pulled back-not lowered to firing pin as with my P13-45.

The only purpose I can glean (even after skimming/reviewing the manual with my limited ability to comprehend ) is perhaps not fire if it is dropped and falls on hard surface and struck . But I don't see how that would differ, if true, from the hammer fully pulled back and firearm is dropped.

Comments are appreciated.
 
#2 ·
Some 1911s use a captive hammer (IE a little shelf where the sear would hold the hammer captive) whilst others have a non-captive hammer instead. The latter of the two will fall in in quarter cock when tested, this is natural as there is nothing to prevent it from falling the rest of the way. This trend began with the series 80's guns and here is a thread with an excellent animated picture to show how a captive hammer operates.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=391154
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thank you for your prompt response, Kodadek.

So, if I understand you correctly, the hammer is non-captive, will drop to firing pin when trigger is depressed, does not serve as any type of safety device, and should not be set there at any time?

I have scanned over the thread which basically makes the same inquiry, so I guess mine is duplicative.

Anyway, thanks a lot, as I did not see any discussion of this non-captive hammer or quarter or for that matter half-cock in the manual. I would speculate that it was intentionally omitted.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Quarter cock should never be used as a safety device. It is a redundancy to prevent hammer fall in the event of a catastrophic failure. It's best to treat/think of it as a safety feature versus an actual device captive or not. Some manufacturers add a captive hammer, others do not. The thought was that on a 1911 or any gun with a firing pin safety like a series 80 Colt, Para, Remington, or Auto Ordnance (you can have a captive on an 80's series style 1911 and some of these manufacturer's might or might not, I've gutted a few 1911s of various makes but not all of them) Regent, or Sig or a Swartz safety as on the series II Kimbers and non E-Series Smith and Wessons that the fall from quarter cock (the 1911 does not half cock but instead cocks a quarter of the way...not nitpicking, just a neat fact) will not hit hard enough to make the arm go off. Springfield and others use a non-captive setup and a light firing and heavy spring, which is another generally accepted method of "drop-safing" a 1911.
 
#4 ·
Saw your thread over on the other forum. Responded there. Further "investigation" shows my S80 Colts will drop, S70 Colts will not. S70 Springfield does drop.

Strange that similar S70 guns...some do, some don't, and the S80 that I expected to be the "more" safe would drop. Go figure.




For a more detailed explanation, send a PM to Log Man. He's one of the resident 'smiths here on the forum. Tracy
 
#7 · (Edited)
Interesting. After reading KODADEK's postings, I had to check mine. I currently have three 1911s. One of which is a Para P-12 that I bought in 1994 prior to the AWB going into effect. It has an 1/8th cock position and it will fall when trigger pulled while grip safety depressed.

I also have two Kimbers and both have the 1/4 cock that KODADEK mentioned. However, when they are in this 1/4 cock position, the triggers are locked and the hammers will NOT fall. Pull hammer to full cock and trigger works. One of these is the Pro Carry II with the Swartz safety and the other is the Super Carry Pro without the Swartz safety.

The Kimber Owners manual says this is an automatic safety feature in case your hand slips and releases the slide too soon and is never to be engaged by hand. The paragraph title is Hammer Safety Stop. My P12-45 user manual on page 11 mentions the Hammer Safety Stop which is there in case of a sear notch failure.

ETA: KODADEK has the best answer and my owner's manuals supports what he said.
 
#9 ·
As stated NEVER use quarter, half, or anything other than full cock [or hammer down on empty chamber] for carry. Of course also use thumb safety.
Hammer will fall on certain combinations from less than full cock, but without enough force to overcome firing pin resistance. Still, I prefer captive ledge set-up on my hammers.
Best,