[Reloader]

This was posted a short while ago on another Forum. It garnered many views, but no meaningful response.

I find myself curious and thought I would re-post it here to see what information may be offered.

John M. Browning's first handgun was the 1895 gas operated pistol. It's clearly an adaptation of the 1893 machine gub mechaism regharding the gas operation.

What cartridge did it fire?

I've seen it said that the cartridge is what later became the 38 ACP, but nothing was offered in the statement substantiating it.

If we assume it was what became the 38 ACP, did Browning make it himself or did Winchester make it for him? Or some other company?

Thanks.

 

[Jim Watson]

That will take more research than Google and gun boards.
You can visualize the Browning Brothers turning the rims off enough .38 Long Colt cases to try out a new design. Minimum order to Winchester would have been more than necessary.
But who KNOWS?

 

[Old Grumpy]

Didn't take a whole lot of searching to find this. Just searched for John Moses Browning's first gas operated pistol.

Historical Firearms - John Browning’s Gas-Operated Pistol On the 20th...

If you find one for sale, you might have to take out a loan to buy it.

Grumpy

 

[Reloader]

Thanks Grumpy. I have seen that patent article in the past, but it was a good reminder.

Thanks Jim. I was visualizing converting something like the 38 Long Colt that made me think that, perhaps, Winchester made up the cartridges. Browning had fairly close ties with Winchester.

However, as I recall (without looking it up at the moment), the dimensions are just enough different that I don't know what parent case (if any) may have been used.

I was privileged to have had a private tour of the Browning Museum earlier this week. While I could not handle the gun, I did look it over. The Museum does not know what cartridge it used.

There are many fascinating guns and prototypes at the Museum. I had thought the converted 1873 rifle was Browning's first machine gun but there was an earlier prototype using the muzzle flapper function. The Museum did note that both that prototype and the converted Winchester were ib 44 WCF (44-40).

 

[mdslye]

The blueprints look like an upside down "potato digger "To me.

 

[Beano]

You can see the later 1899/1900 pistol resemblance in the ejection port of the prototype.
FN bought the rights to the 7.65 model 1899/1900 blowback pistol, not Colt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PolymerMan]

Looks like it uses a toggle-lock delay... first used in 1893 in a Borchardt C93.

No, I'm not a gun historian... I just play one on the internetz...

But the article and the patent post got me interested so I started to research the toggle action.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borchardt_C-93

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_pistol

The Luger P08 was also a toggle-lock delay (that hinged action that moves up) that was an improvement on the Borchardt C93.

So it looks like Browning was improving on existing art at that time in the mid 1890's.

 

[darude]

Looks like a desert eagle

 

[2aCrisis]

those had to have been exciting times, if you could afford to be a buyer at the time, there was so much to be excited about...
my dad's dad was born in 1902, we always talked about the exciting times he saw evolve. so much that was new, but in reality, he struggled to make a living out of nearly nothing. but still, exciting times. and as we, the grandkids grew up around him, he was proud to tell us about the old days. and,, the gun he carried during his life, a Colt Vest Pistol.. the little .25 acp auto, brother Browning... it was as worn as his aged body. they both worked hard and well...