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First Time with Pistol Red Dot

1.8K views 23 replies 10 participants last post by  jjfitch  
#1 ·
I went to the range today to test out a Glock 19 clone I built and the Trijicon RMR that I mounted on it.
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I built this pistol for the express purpose of testing out a pistol red dot, which I have never used before. The frame was on sale at Brownells for $50, and the RMR cut slide was only $100. I figured if I didn’t like the red dot, I wasn’t out too much on the gun. I bought a Trijicon RMR 2 with the automatic brightness adjustment. I figure if I like the dot, I got a good one and if I don’t, I shouldn’t have trouble selling it or I can put it on one of my ARs.

I did a fair amount of presentation drills and dry firing over the past few weeks with it to get used to picking up the dot before I shot live.

I shot at an indoor range, so I was limited to 15 yards. The pistol and dot proved very accurate. The pistol functioned flawlessly BTW. I shot 200 rounds including 40 Federal HST 147g.

Accuracy wise, I like the dot. I’m starting to get farsighted and don’t see my front sight so clearly. I think I’m a little more accurate with the dot, but not by much (yet).

Speed wise, I couldn’t tell a difference, but I wasn’t using a shot timer. The dry fire drills really helped I think. I didn’t waste any time looking for the dot. A few times shooting one handed I had to dip the pistol down to find the dot, but that’s because I have been shooting my 1911s more frequently, so I wasn’t used to the Glock grip angle. Tracking the dot between shots seemed easier than iron sights, but not appreciably. I’m sure it would be a lot easier in poor lighting conditions.

What I really liked about the dot was the feedback. It was easier to call my shots with the dot than with irons. I assume that a shooter who used a red dot exclusively would progress faster than with irons for that reason.

Overall, I like the dot, but at this point it’s not a game changer or anything for me. I’m not going to run out and have optic cuts put in my 1911 slides. I think I’ll start shooting this pistol in IDPA and see what happens.
 
#2 ·
Solid report with a very accurate assessment. The dot is a like a shooting coach attached to your gun for a feedback. Dry fire is the key. Shooting matches will bring out deficiencies to work out; for most people those are sharp angles and support hand shooting.
The only thing I regret in your report is your choice of optic. I wish you'd asked around beforehand but what's done is done. Enjoy the new learning.
 
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#3 ·
The only thing I regret in your report is your choice of optic.
What don’t you like about the RMR? I won’t buy anything from communist China, so that limited my options. Plus, I got a really good deal on it.
 
#5 ·
Nothing wrong with the RMR. That is what I run daily and it is the gold standard by with all other dots are compared. I train and shoot a lot, so the small window doesn’t matter to me. The advantage of the larger windows is if you miss the dot on presentation they’re easier to hunt for, but you can train that need out so you never miss the dot. The larger window on the SRO makes it significantly more fragile. The DPP is good, but is also somewhat fragile. I think you can buy metal surrounds for the DPP to ruggedize it. And I’ve never had any issues with the mount on my RMR, heck, it’s never even lost zero during battery changes.
 
#6 ·
Whatever their countries of origin, I am a big fan of the mid-priced Vortex Venom and Burris Fast Fire 3. They just work. Top mount battery for was of switching. Bright. Long lasting battery. And with red dots on all my eight pistols, I need prices I can afford. Red dots have cut my group sizes in half at all distances. I don't pretend to be a tournament champion level shooter, but since switching to red dots, I have never seen anyone shooting casually at my indoor ranges do better than me. Not even close.
 
#7 ·
I too switched to a red dot for my range pistol (TX22) and really like it. I'm farsighted as well and it helps me focus better to improve my accuracy vs irons. To me it's much easier to focus on the one dot vs 2 different iron sights and then target. I do not really like the height of the sight mounted using the dovetail adapter, but my next one will be cut for the optic vs "adapted " to. I'm thinking I want to find a 9mm 1911 cut for a red dot and try that. Thanks for the range report!
 

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#8 ·
I'm thinking I want to find a 9mm 1911 cut for a red dot and try that.
I’m starting to see a 9mm 2011 with a red dot in my future. I’ve already exceeded my gun buying budget for this year, though (and maybe next too!).
 
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#9 · (Edited)
I think you can buy metal surrounds for the DPP to ruggedize it.
DPP comes with a metal shroud from the factory.
I dropped 2 SROs with 40 oz CZs attached to them three times from about waist level. They didn't care much.
Considering that the OP already bought his, I think I'll defer a discussion if a 13 yo optic that was just upgraded by its maker, addressing the two issues I mentioned, is a gold standard to a later date.

I’m starting to see a 9mm 2011 with a red dot in my future.
I have one, considered a pretty high end, and I am on a list of a custom builder for another. What's your projected budget?
 
#11 ·
I have one, considered a pretty high end, and I am on a list of a custom builder for another. What's your projected budget?
I’m kicking around the idea of building one if I ever get around to finishing the lightweight CCO I’m working on. I’ve never built a 9mm 1911 or any 2011 before, though, so I may just order a Staccato, C2 most likely. I’m also considering buying my daughter one for her 21st birthday this year. She currently shoots my Glocks in IDPA, but I want to get her something nicer. I spend way too much money on guns, though, so I may try to discipline myself better this coming year and just buy ammo and buy her a Glock:)
 
#10 · (Edited)
Keep in mind that the apparent “fit” of the front sight blade between the sides of the rear sight notch significantly affects precision of the POI. In other words the “slop” you see on each side of the front blade can become slop in POI. If the blade is too narrow or the notch too wide, you see a lot of daylight on each side of the blade. Centering the blade in the notch consistently can be hard for less talented shooters like myself. With the red dot, especially, one with a small dot (1-3 MOA), that issue is minimized.
 
#12 ·
In Olympic rapid fire pistol, the “ideal” is a front and rear sight combination that results in the apparent space between the sides of the front sight blade and sides of the rear notch being each 50% of the width of the front sight. This provides the ideal balance between speed and accuracy. I use the same on my practical pistols. I’ve tested this out on 1911s and Glocks and generally prefer a .125” front sight (with tritium) and a plain black .135-.140” rear notch. Narrower aids accuracy but sacrifices speed for me. Wider really starts to degrade accuracy and adds nothing to speed in my experience.

One drill I used to have police academy and in service students perform was purposely putting the front sight blade all the way to either side of the rear notch and firing. At close range (7 yds) it doesn’t affect shot placement significantly (most stock defensive pistols come with .125” wide front sights and rear notches). I did this to show that you don’t need to snatch the trigger when you have perfect sight alignment. What’s cool about the red dot (if you have co-witness irons) is that you can experience this without ammo. You can also do it with a bore sighting laser.

Anyway, I agree that a red dot can increase one’s practical accuracy at longer ranges. I’ve long used red dots on rifles in both military service and law enforcement. They are a huge advantage in any type of stressed or time limited shooting. However, at least when my vision was better, I could still shoot more accurately with iron sights given more time.
 
#20 ·
Keep in mind that the size of the dot should be tailored to the intended use of the gun in order to maximize sight acquisition for any purpose. So for close (say up to 10 yards) range self defense a big dot like 6 MOA makes sense to enable quick pickup of the dot. And keep the dot on highest brightness. For indoor shooting range accuracy at 20-25 yards 1-3 MOA is better. Keep the brightness as low as practical to still see the dot on the target. That makes the dot look even finer. Speed isn't the issue; accuracy is. So You want the size if the dot to be as low a fraction of the size of the target as possible. In between these two extremes requires something in between.
 
#18 ·
Nice setup. Dots are a learning curve; its a process, not a instantaneous acquisition. Over time and practice, you will become more comfortable with it. I have been gravitating towards them the past year due in part to my fading eyesight: I cant see the front sight very well anymore so the Dot helps compensate for that visual degeneration and helps me get back on target.
 
#19 ·
yeah, shooting 1911's for a half century, and in IDPA for over a decade. Just got two Dot pistols, a Sig 229, a heavy pistol, and a much lighter HK VP9sk. I dry fire and rage fire often, and still find using a dot is a real learning curve after iron sighs for so long. But I am determined to gain speed and accuracy with a dot, but I am also finding at 78 that my arms are weaker, due to several years of medical therapy, and I have more inherent shake than I did a few years ago. It is hard to accept and "fight" to try to retain my shooting as well as I seemed to be even a few years ago. I don't drink any coffee on the days I intend to go shooting, for instance. But I want to become as proficient as I can be with my dot pistols. I keep both pistols on a bedroom dresser, and every time I walk past them, I pick one up and dry fire and blast away at my wife's hand creams on the bathroom counter. Or at myself on the mirror. NV
 
#23 ·
having an astigmatism make all of my dots on rifle and pistols actually three sem-connected dots, with some flare, so I usually try to shoot with the brightest of the three dots on the target. After countless thousands of draws with a 1911, which comes up to my sight picture perfectly aligned, the small differences in the grips of my 229 and SK are not instantly so aligned. I don't want to dot any of my 1911's, so it is just something I think with practice I can become much better at. NV
 
#24 ·
Grand Master Taran Butler Hip Shooting 6 plates 1.98sec. Broke his personal record.
Here's a argument against using a R/D on a self-defense firearm! :)