Sounds like water under the bridge at this point. H&R has been producing quality arms for civilian and military use for a very long time. I would expect that any AR-15 type of rifle or carbine that they have come out with to be of good quality. Buying used it is hard to say what you ended up with regardless of price.

 

This isn’t the same H&R that the produced the M16s 50+ years ago. This is Palmetto using a trademark that they acquired to sell their retro products. With that said, I have generally had good luck with Palmetto products.

We can nitpick the little details all day and everyday; but at the end of the day, I’m just happy to have access to new triangular hand guards and shorter A1 length stocks rather than having to scrounge through old brittle military surplus or pay a bunch of money for NOS originals. Having new true brunton bump free A1 uppers and not just the Canadian C7 style is nice too.

 

I was retro before retro was cool

 

Wow!. Now that's what I'm talking about...

 

I prefer originals to copies myself. Unless, it is something that is not available or the cost is too prohibitive because of the rarity of the original. Like the HK MP5. The price of a real MP5 is about $30,000 - $35,000. I could be convinced to get a semi-auto version just out of sentimental reasons. Back in the 90's I had an HK 94 S&H conversion to MP5 with registered auto sear that only cost me $2,600 back then. I traded it for a Colt M16A2 and some cash. But, I kind of miss that HK. I also had an HK91 and 93 back then and about 5 years ago I bought a PTR 91 out of sentimental reasons to scratch the itch for another one. I have a Galil ACE that I bought to scratch the itch for an original Galil AR .308 that I had back then. I also had several FN FAL's (semi-auto only) back then, but, I've not seen any FN FAL clones that interested me.

 

As long as PSA makes the current production of H&R M16 family of rifles with the best quality control possible why not buy one. Original rifles, if you can find, them will be either out of reach by most of us with modest means or will likely be completely a rebuilt frankengun.

What would have been nice if H&R/PSA had started off with the serial numbers that picked up where old serial numbers ended.

I would prefer an original Colt Python made in the 1960s to 1970s but those guns too expensive. So I bought a contemporary made in 2023 at a fraction of what a vintage Python cost.

 

I'm thinking about getting the XM177E2 upper. But have to get through the holidays, tax, insurance premiums first

 

Retro clone ARs are not perfect any more than retro USGI 1911s are. They will impress 90% of us, but the hardcore nerds will always be able to spot the subtle differences from a table away. Just be glad somebody still makes A1-pattern rifles.

I would've bought one myself had this state not closed the door on any more ARs being bought or sold.

 

The retro product lines seem like a good thing overall. Much like the retro 1911's, they invite newcomers into the fold without the pressure of finding something extremely specific and period correct in the dried up millsurp market.

I bought one of the H&R retro uppers from PSA which was based on one a late 70's or early 80's export model of the M16. It seems to be a quality product although I don't have the correct gages to run my own QC check on it.

One of the largest complaints about PSA's H&R retro line is related to a handful of rotated front sight bases that got past QC. The mis-alignment was still within spec, but people don't like the look of the rear sight post cranked over to one side or the other (especially for the high price of the uppers).

 

Where did one buy an original M16A1 back in the good old days?

or even buy a used original M16A1 right now?

I don’t think much about these retro guns, especially something from PSA. However to nitpick them is ridiculous. It’s not as though one can buy an original back in the good old days. There was no civilian's semiautomatic version of the Colt Commando, no Colt 603, no H&R M16A1. The best thing that was available back then was the Colt SP-1.

 

Where did one buy an original M16A1 back in the good old days?

or even buy a used original M16A1 right now?

Back in the good ol' days, ya could buy a brand new Colt M16A1 from a Class III dealer if ya had the money and time to wait for the $200 tax stamp. Some dealers had police trade-ins.
Transferable ones still do show up at Class III dealers and auctions.

 

Nodak Spud (NDS) led the way to bring back retro AR parts production. PSA had enough vision to brought H&R name back to 2nd life, and brought in NDS under it's wing at the same time. Set aside from mixed feelings about PSA, all of those elements I mentioned deserve its recognition in that regard. Besides the retro forging dies are their own, most of their other parts are outsourced like most AR manufacturers. New H&R is far from perfect, but their quality is good enough for me to buy their small parts and uppers/lowers for retro build.

Another company to keep an eye on is Bad Attitude Department, BAD. The had some cool retro markings on A2 lowers that I think are better than H&R's. And they are working on getting A1 lowers to production in the near future. BAD is obviously a much smaller player than PSA/H&R for now. But they are very flexible to work with customers on custom markings as long as those are not infringe other companies copyrights, trademarks, tradenames. When their A1 lower production go live, I can see myself buying quite a few of those too.

 

After some range time with a m16A1 some 51 years I lost all in any AR based firearm for years . Then I had the chance to shoot several modern Ar15's that were accurate and started thinking about building now buying an AR15. In 2012 I had to retire a couple years early do to some medical issues and read about Aero Precision offering AR15 uppers and lowers and I ordered two uppers and lowers and started researching parts to order . Now we have a couple reliable moa carbines built how my wife and I wanted them .

 

Kind of hard to explain how for some of us, who carried/shot a firearm in some far away conflict, in our later years just really want to have the same rifle or pistol we trusted in what was an important time in our lives. Or as near a copy of that firearm as possible. I carried an issue 1911 in two such wars, and several years ago got a CMP .45, one identical to the ones an armorer handed over to me. Since then I have looked at replica's of the M16 rifle i had for 366 days in Vietnam, a pivotal time in my own life. I have looked at the on-line pictures of the PSA H&R versions and others, but mine would need the triangular handguard to make it like mine. I haven't bought a Replica yet, but may still 'scratch that itch." I live near the main PSA store, and am shooting there this aftertnoon with a friend. But their H&R versions are not available to inspect and purchase in their flagship store. Here, mine along with several other of our issue or otherwise sourced firearms hanging on our Hootch wall, deep in the Delta. The Vietnamese is Kahn, one of my two interpreters, who later stepped on a mine and blew off his legs. All the best, SF VET
[url=https://postimg.cc/dLR8S9bk][/URL]

 

Kind of hard to explain how for some of us, who carried/shot a firearm in some far away conflict, in our later years just really want to have the same rifle or pistol we trusted in what was an important time in our lives. Or as near a copy of that firearm as possible. I carried an issue 1911 in two such wars, and several years ago got a CMP .45, one identical to the ones an armorer handed over to me. Since then I have looked at replica's of the M16 rifle i had for 366 days in Vietnam, a pivotal time in my own life. I have looked at the on-line pictures of the PSA H&R versions and others, but mine would need the triangular handguard to make it like mine. I haven't bought a Replica yet, but may still 'scratch that itch." I live near the main PSA store, and am shooting there this aftertnoon with a friend. But their H&R versions are not available to inspect and purchase in their flagship store. Here, mine along with several other of our issue or otherwise sourced firearms hanging on our Hootch wall, deep in the Delta. The Vietnamese is Kahn, one of my two interpreters, who later stepped on a mine and blew off his legs. All the best, SF VET
[url=https://postimg.cc/dLR8S9bk][/URL]

I was issued an M16A1 and later on an M16A2. I have a Colt SP-1 and it might not be anywhere near resembling the M16A1, but it’s close enough for government work.

 

I left some parts in Viet Nam so I can't qualify as Retro Correct, merely qualify as almost "period correct" for being a prime mover of M16 in that war. I am not sure what disqualifies the SP1 Colt semi auto clone of M16a1 nor clones of it via other vendors offering such M16a1 clones / uppers / lowers. If the issue is no auto and with out that , the SP1 doesn't move the collector / retro owner needle, then close the book or chase a Class III M16a1.

My Colt SP1 sure is close enough for the XM16E1 that I was issued in RVN and later on there, I got issued the XM177E1 and my Colt SP1 "Carbine" is close enough to replicate the XM177E1.

My M1A commercial clone of M14 is a dead ringer for the M14 I was issued in basic training..and back then the M14 wasn't issued with full auto switch.

Maybe some of you might consider Good Enuff on vintage battle rifle clones. Good Enuff works for me.

 

I went to Basic Training at Ft. Knox in 1978, and was issued an H&R M-16A1 while there. I did manage to qualify Expert with it, and it had no issues I knew of, at the time. I had a GM Hydromatic in AIT at Ft. Benning, and it was a hunkajunk that barely functioned. When I got to Ft. Bragg in the 82nd, we had Colts, but they were pretty hard-used from the Vietnam era, and didn't shoot especially well, but as I was an 11-C, I didn't worry much about it all, as I was issued a 1911A1 by then. Later, we got brand-new Colts, just before I got out, and just before they went to the A2 models.
That was a long time ago, but those things kinda stick in one's mind.

 

Sometimes close enough is good enough at least for me.

 

About ten years ago I found this Sendra/Rock Island AR clone at a LGS. It was mostly A1 but had a lot of A2 parts on it. Also the BCG was pitted and the GI trangular handguards were cracked/broken. Over time I sourced the correct A1 parts, some original and some repro, and now it's my favorite AR.

 

I just need a source for slickside BCG's....

 

I just need a source for slickside BCG's....

First known sighting on the archelogy of BCG's , had not seen BCG as an obstacle but I guess for some, its a priority ....but since one's lower is always semi auto non issue lower, you can't replicate / clone a M16A1 precisely so...........why would a BCG "style" matter. So Why bother....Because You Can must be the reason. Fair enough, choice is wonderful.

 

I'm not exactly a fanboy of the ARs, but I did buy the cheapest one I could find in 2018, when Fancy Nancy get the House Speakership again, a DPMS Oracle. From what i can gather, it is much reviled over on AR15.com.
I put a riser and a scope on it (t's a flattop), and wouldn't you know it, it shoots pretty good, and has never hiccuped even once, shooting old handloads I'd put together for prairie dogging. Not too bad for a rifle I only bought to stick old Nancy in the eyeballs. It works, shoots okay to good, and was cheap. It fit my criteria exactly right. I don't much care what they jabber about on arf.com, or whatever they call themselves.
It's not anything like the old M16A1s I had carried in the Army, but it serves it's purpose well enough.

 

I have built several clones throughout the years using NDS/Brownells/PSA receivers and so far, i haven't had any issues with them.

I built this XM-177E2 clone back with Troy released their "Son Tay Raider" carbine and saw how crappy it was; then Colt released their clones and found the price tag too prohibitive; so I just scoured all the gun part websites out there and started "harvesting" parts to create my own "close to original" clone.

Most of the parts came from a Colt SP1 carbine parts kit, a Colt F/A BCG, a modified H&R selector (so it rotates fully while still semi only) and a clone XM moderator (non NFA). Put it together, than sent it off to be finished in XM Grey Moly Coat. I even went as far as getting a repro DoD Acceptance stamp to give it that final touch.

I've also built an XM-16E1 clone a Mk-18 Mod 0 CQBR clone and an M635 9mm SMG clone using an original Colt parts kit with an A1 lower.

My next project is to build a 10"USAF GAU-5A/A clone, along with a clone M16A2 rifle in grey like the one I carried during my time in active service.

 

Nice gun. What barrel length is it (without the faux moderator) ? 11.5" or something else?

 

I thought the triangular early front handguards had the better ergonomics. You could feel the flatness and point better in a hurry.

I met an LTC who bragged to me about eliminating the flat fore end handguard. He was in a meeting and asked the civilians there, "why don't we eliminate a part and go with a round forend?" and then he asked the civilians for a reason against the change. Government civilians are paper pushers, know nothing about the product other than price and quantity, about 99% have never fired a rifle anyway, and 100% of them are scared to challenge a green suiter. Given all that, none of the civilians replied or pushed back. And that is how the earlier, better, handguards were eliminated.

 

I thought the triangular early front handguards had the better ergonomics. You could feel the flatness and point better in a hurry.

Absolutely correct and a great aid to not canting the rifle. With the sights as high above the bore as they are cant errors are significant. Round handguards only made the supply clerks' job easier. No longer did they have to be able to tell left from right...their military left. H&R's triangular guards have the right shape and the improved material. I like 'em

 

While I like the triangular handguards, the round ones were better overall and probably one of the few actual improvements in the M16A2. It's rare to find an original USGI set of triangular guards that haven't cracked or suffered broken "teeth". The modern replicas are made of better materials, but it took me awhile to find a vendor who made a set that actually looked and felt like the originals.

Now if you really want my vote for worst AR handguards that would be the fat oval ones used on the early M4s. They felt like trying to hold onto a hot football.

 

The modern replicas are made of better materials, but it took me awhile to find a vendor who made a set that actually looked and felt like the originals.

Which manufacturer ended up with the best feel?

 

I've been seriously thinking about buying one of the 12.5 pistols as a base for a Gordon'ish style dedicated suppressor host. I just can't get past the mental block of paying an upcharge for the "retro tax" of what is essentially a rebranded PSA, which can typically be had for roughly 50% less than their H&R counter part.

Aside from that, the only current 12.5 offering (required barrel length for the correct AEM/OCL5 suppressor mount) is a mashup of blem parts rebranded as a "battlefield pickup " finish. Hopefully it's just the lighting, but it makes the forging/machining of the upper receiver looks a little rough for the increase in price.

 

Try Linemount A1 handguards. But don't buy their A1 pistol grip, the grip from Linemount is more of Taiwan T65 style. Linemount import a lot of Retro stuff from Taiwan suppliers.

M16A1 - AR-15 Retro Triangular Handguard Set | SP1

M16A1 Retro Triangular Handguard Set. Includes Right and Left, with heat shield. Reproduction of the classic late 1960s handguard.

linemount.com

 

Well.....I could no longer resist the urge and ordered a gray anodized 733. We will see how it is in a week or so.

 

We’ll be expecting pictures! 😀

 

Well......I've got half a firearm. Still waiting on the upper that was supposed to be here 2 days ago but was delayed due to severe weather (there wasn't any the day it was supposed to be delivered). Today there actually was a big snow storm the prior night, so we will see if it shows up or gets delayed again.

The castle nut wasn't staked which seems to be par for the course for PSA, but I quickly took care of that. It is period correct (holes instead of notches) so cloners should be happy.

The gray looks amazing in person. I really hope the upper matches, although a mismatch is probably more period correct for a 733 with a M16A2 marked lower. If it doesn't, it will get the camo treatment.

The real star so far is the trigger. Polished up nicely on all the contact points and surprisingly good out of the box.

 

Finnaly have a complete specimen. My only complaint is it didn't come with the shiny handguard like they have in all thier photos.

 

Finnaly have a complete specimen. My only complaint is it didn't come with the shiny handguard like they have in all thier photos.

View attachment 747957

Yours is a C7 upper right? If that's the case, they all came with matte handguard like that. Only the true A1 retro clone carbines have shiny 6-hole Colt style handguard. that's what Mike, H&R CEO, said in ARFCOM.