Something to consider, unless there's some other element in the picture. Not enough take up isn't a risk for AD if nothing is on the trigger, assuming it's not just a trigger set up wrong. If something is on the trigger, adding 1/16" or even 1/8" won't do you any good unless you are controlling what's on the trigger. And if what's on the trigger is under control (finger?), if the gun isn't point at something you want destroyed, that something shouldn't be on the trigger.

 

The adjustment screw in most triggers is for over-travel. Takeup is regulated by a pair of tabs at the front of the trigger bow, one on each side, that limit how far forward the trigger goes on return.

If your trigger has those tabs bend them in toward the bow.

Rather than diddle the sear replace the the trigger.

Short takeup is usually the goal.

Square range rules aside your finger should be on the trigger as the pisol is coming up to line of sight, waiting for the sights to be on target will put you at a disadvantage. Heck, if you have a DA pistol the hammer should be coming back during the presentation!

-- Chuck

 

Trigger tabs

I keep hearing about the tabs on the rear bow of the trigger that can be bent inward to reduce trigger take-up. I have a new Kimber Eclipse that has too much take-up and I'd like to fix that but don't know what these tabs look like. Do Kimbers have this kind of trigger? If not, any other options or do I need to buy a new trigger if I want to fix this?

THX

JIM

 

Increasing trigger take up

Most people don't like trigger take up, so yours is an unusual request.
I would check the back of the trigger to see if it has been worked on to remove take up. Some smiths will silver solder a shim on the back of the trigger to eliminate take-up, since many shooters prefer less take-up.
Your trigger bow is rounded toward the front and square across the back where the disconnector rides.

I would remove the slide and strip the frame, leaving only the ejector.
Re-insert the trigger, and see if the back of the trigger bow is riding
square with the frame. Sometimes, a trigger bow may be slighlty out of shape, and won't properly fit the trigger cuts of the frame, which causes the back of the trigger to protrude slightly further out, which effectively eliminates trigger take up. If this is the case, I take a wood block the width of the back of the trigger, and with the frame mounted securely in a padded vise, I take a mallet and tap the back of the trigger bow very carefully, so the curved trigger bows will mesh and swage themselves to the recess cuts in the frame. This is a delicate procedure. Too much force and the trigger bows will bend inward and possibly rub on the magazines when inserted. If the trigger can be seated just a bit further into the frame, this provides more takeup. Even if you over bend the trigger bows, they can be restraightened.
If this procedure does not help, you may try another trigger that has tabs on the back that can be bent to adjust trigger take-up.

 

Takeup

My Eclipse is brand new and has too much takeup for my taste and more than my other 2 1911s. Are the "tabbed" trigger bows strickly an aftermarket product or do some stock (Kimber?) 1911s have them?

Thanks, JIM

 

My Eclipse is brand new and has too much takeup for my taste and more than my other 2 1911s. Are the "tabbed" trigger bows strickly an aftermarket product or do some stock (Kimber?) 1911s have them?

Thanks, JIM

Kimber triggers do have the pretravel tabs. Keep in mind that you may have to adjust the grip safety if you make an adjustment on the trigger pretravel.

 

I question the practice of having the hammer moving on a d.a. pistol, during presentation. There are plenty of "presentations" that don't result in gunfire...many more than do result in gunfire. Assuming that one is going to fire every time one draws one's handgun is pretty irresponsible, in my humble opinion.

Back to the OP's question: Can't imagine wanting more takeup in a pistol's trigger. In all honesty, the problem seems to be between the OP's ears, and not between the trigger's bows.

 

Some triggers do not have the tabs to adjust take-up. They are usually found on replacement triggers such as STI. If your trigger has them, bend them in to increase take up and out to decrease. 1/16 inch sounds pretty good to me. More important is the trigger break and pull weight. Too light a pull weight is more apt to cause ND than too little take up. I prefer a 4 to 4.5 pull and as long as the break is clean without creep, 5 to 6 is okay too.

 

There doesn't seem to be a absolute amount but most 'smiths recommend something around .025 to.050 minimum for a safe trigger. Some combinations of frames, triggers and ignition parts will give you little to no slack or pre-travel in the trigger. The trigger bows on Grieder triggers tend to be longer than the blueprint specs so the easiest solution would be to try a trigger made by someone other than Grieder (Grieder makes most but not all of the aftermarket triggers).

If the original poster had asked how much pre-travel is necessary for a safe trigger, I'm sure that there would be plenty of responses. Instead he is asking how to increase the pre-travel to ensure that his pistol is safe.

To suggest that he needs to work on his shooting technique is not really constructive.

 

DeerNut,

MOST 1911 triggers DO NOT have the FRONT TABS on a trigger bow to adjust (reduce) the trigger uptake.

STI tends to make some of the best 1911 triggers with the uptake reducing tabs on the trigger bow:
Brownell's STI Triggers

THE REQUIRE A FAIR BIT OF FITTING THOUGH!

See in the picture, just behind the trigger 'shoe' on the curved part of the 'bow' area that goes by the front of the mag well. There are two small 'tabs' on the trigger bow. These typically are bent forwards a specific distance (which varies from one gun to another) and that will shorten the 'uptake' distance of your trigger.

It WILL require a sizable amount of fitting the BOW to your frame, the SHOE may need fitting to the frame, and after that is properly fitted you're going to want fit the OVERTRAVEL STOP. Once you've got the overtravel stop adjusted properly and working in your gun, then you'll want to check uptake distances, and then slowly fit the uptake tabs a little bit at a time. Take your time on this too - test fitting it periodically by reassembling the gun, and dry-firing to see that the overtravel stop is adjusted properly, and then locked in place, and also checking that the uptake tabs are working properly and have minimized your trigger uptake, but still allow reliable resetting of the trigger when you release it to fire your next shot.

If you adjust this improperly, you'll have a pretty cool looking auto-loading single shot pistol! :biglaugh:

 

There is a limit as to the amount of pre-travel a gun can have, but what's important is that the half cock notch can be fully engaged without putting the trigger in a bind. Normally that is somewhere between ,040"-.060". To check pull to half cock and the trigger should not feel tight, or a more definitive check is to pull the trigger back while you pull the slide back just far enough to engage the half cock notch and release the slide to battery. Now release the trigger and it should reset.

If this is not the case I've had success in increasing pre-travel when needed by perfecting the fit of the trigger, the sear and the disconnector. First make sure that the trigger is as far forward as possible and the stirrup is flat and polished.

Then are the ears of the disconnector equal and the back or area of the disco that touches the stirrup flat and polished, also the top corner of the disco ears should be broke ever so slightly and polished.

And then the sear legs can be reduced on the side that contacts the disco, they must remain equal also, polish the bottom of the sear legs, the corner that the disco rides by and the area the rests against the disco ears.

LOG

 

There is a limit as to the amount of pre-travel a gun can have, but what's important is that the half cock notch can be fully engaged without putting the trigger in a bind. Normally that is somewhere between ,040"-.060". To check pull to half cock and the trigger should not feel tight, or a more definitive check is to pull the trigger back while you pull the slide back just far enough to engage the half cock notch and release the slide to battery. Now release the trigger and it should reset.
LOG

Thanks iNuhBad and Logman, Once I saw the pic of the STI trigger tabs I locked the slide on my Eclipse and looked - yup there they are. However, I measured the take up at .042" and when I pull the hammer back to the half cock notch, the trigger is tight. Sounds like I need to do nothing.

Thanks for the time you spend helping people like me and arguing with people like you!

JIM

 

thank you

Thanks Logman, Dave and all that have posted. This is the information that I was looking for. It seems that the tolerance stack on this frame and the components selected gave me little take up. It appears to me that the disconnector is not allowing the trigger to be returned to the most forward position. Looking at the hole in the disconnector ( square hole) it was much smaller then the spec I found in the Kunhusen books. A swap of a few spares I had seemed to help. I have more then a few hours in this one ;-) The long EGW sear helped with the Pre-fit Ambi Safety that has been hard chromed to match the finish and the fact it had a good clean break, to boot left me looking for combination that would give me the required results. After all was said and done the grip safety needed just a little tweek so it would reset past the trigger bow. A hundred or so rounds at the range resulted in a no failure test run.


Kind regards
RoFi
Robert Finegan

 

In a Kimber this will likely result in light or no primer strikes as the grip safety's travel is responsible for disengageing the firing pin block before the trigger is released in the SeriesII and the S&W 1911's.

No, actually it won't. I was referring to taking some material off the angled front of the blocking part of the arm so it doesn't rub on the trigger bow. There is no reason to shorten the arm at the top. This won't reduce the length enough to miss the push rod. The push rod is engaged by the top of the grip safety arm, not the front blocking part.

The important point to convey would be that pre-travel may be reduced to the point of the half cock notch working properly.

Not to mention allowing the trigger to reset.

 

No, actually it won't. I was referring to taking some material off the front of the blocking part of the arm so it doesn't rub on the trigger bow. This won't reduce the length enough to miss the push rod. The push rod is engaged by the top of the grip safety arm, not the front blocking part.

Which will allow the trigger to be free sooner than the safety timing will allow. Taking material off the front will simply allow the gun to attempt to fire prematurely as the push rod will not have been pushed up far enough to disengage the firing pin block. I am well aware of the relationship of these parts and have tuned a number of them for minimal grip safety depression and full disengagement of the firing pin block prior to releasing the trigger,but shortening the arm is not in the equation. And maintaining enough pre-travel to allow full half cock without binding the trigger is. With this clearance respected the grip safety will not be a problem. If you take as much pre-travel out as would be required to have to shorten the grip safety arm you will not have enough pre-travel for the half cock function.

Allowing the trigger to reset is of course the point of this discussion, as I mentioned in post#11.

LOG

 

Yeah, this is a little bit off the OP Topic, but Kruzr's right. If the front area of the grip safety is fitted back a little it'll still block the trigger bow from moving rearward just fine.

Likewise, the 'take-up' that is being reduced is just the tiny bit of 'play' movement before the trigger/disconnector come into contact with the sear. Fitting/filing back the front won't hurt much as it still isn't even touching the sear yet, and therefore isn't even putting any pressure on it (yet).

It also shouldn't have any affect (if done properly) on the Schwartz style firing pin safety push rod.

 

Interesting, every 1911 and 2011, 13 in all that I have access to, have no more than .010" of pre-travel after the grip safety is depressed and most are right there, which simply means that if you take all of the pre-travel out with the tabs on the front of the bow and move the front of the arm back, you no longer have a grip safety that's functioning, nor do you have enough pre travel, as you've taken it all out for the half cock notch to function properly and reset. Which in these 13 guns varies from .032"-.050" of pre-travel, and all 13, if the trigger is held back while the slide is retracted enough to half cock the hammer and returned to battery the trigger will re-set upon release. There just isn't enough pre- travel left if you take all the pre-travel out right up to and including taking material off the front of the GS arm. Of course every things possible rhetorically. My mistake.

LOG

AH.. did you mean Swartz? Have you ever even seen a 1911 up close. LOL