[PolymerMan]

Ruling came down last week. It sort of surprised me that a liberal state like Minnesotta would have such a pro-2nd amendment ruling from its highest court. Anyhow... things could change there because Minnesotta never passed a law concerning "Ghost Guns". The case arose because some guy got pulled over by a State Trooper, and found an unserialized gun and was charged for having an illegal gun.

BTW: What is a Ghost Gun??? Is it spooky?

Minnesota Supreme Court rules that 'ghost guns' are not required to have serial numbers

The ruling also references that Minnesota has not regulated ghost guns on a state level yet.

kstp.com

The ruling also references that Minnesota has not regulated ghost guns on a state level yet, specifically citing that “Indeed, in 2023, the Legislature had before it, but did not enact, a proposed prohibition on ghost guns,” and that any ghost gun regulation is their decision to make.

and

The case stems from a crash in Fridley in 2022, when a trooper found a ghost gun in a man’s vehicle without a serial number. He was charged with having a firearm without a serial number, but charges were later dropped by a district judge before being reinstated by the court of appeals.

 

[ether]

I saw that. I'm vexed as to how to feel about ghost guns. I've always felt that if you could manufacture a gun for your own purposes, that would be fine. Because, at the end of the day, who could stop you? Even before printers, who could stop a true gunsmith from making their own parts and guns? No one.

But even as a printer/manufacturer, I believe you should still be required to have a license to legally sell and distribute the hardware with serial numbers...for safety/batch considerations, if for no other. Otherwise, that would be like buying food or even dope that you couldn't trace a bad batch back to a manufacturer or distributor.

 

[PolymerMan]

I saw that. I'm vexed as to how to feel about ghost guns. I've always felt that if you could manufacture a gun for your own purposes, that would be fine. Because, at the end of the day, who could stop you? Even before printers, who could stop a true gunsmith from making their own parts and guns? No one.

But even as a printer/manufacturer, I believe you should still be required to have a license to legally sell and distribute the hardware with serial numbers...for safety/batch considerations, if for no other. Otherwise, that would be like buying food or even dope that you couldn't trace a bad batch back to a manufacturer or distributor.

Yeah... well the Minnesotta court system also didn't know how to feel about the so call "Ghost Guns". First the trial judge dismiss the charge, then apparently the prosecutor appealed and the state appellate court re-instated the charge... then the Supreme Court dropped the charge, claiming that Minnesotta doesn't have any law prohibiting a home made ghost gun. The Supreme Court also found that there is/was no prohibition by the Federal Government for those Ghost Guns and I am presuming the article is referring to the many years it was legal to buy one of those 80% kits and build your own. WHICH by the way I think it is still in limbo as far as the BATFE and the DOJ, Attorney General Bondi and the Trump administration is concern.

Don't you just love American Jurisprudence?

Today its legal, tomorrow its not, next week its legal again but only on rainy days. We really need all this craziness cleared up. I hate the guessing game we have with firearm laws, rules and regulations.

 

[FDM1]

I don’t believe for one minute that any court in MN is interested in upholding the 2nd A of the COTUS.

 

[Andylate]

I am obviously not a lawyer but an scratching my head trying to determine how you can be charged with a crime that violates no laws? And how in the heck was the charge originally reinstated on appeal?

It is concerning because I normally go about my day while not committing crimes.

"The question before us is whether Vagle’s possession of the firearm violated section 609.667(3).

We conclude that section 609.667(3) criminalizes the possession of a firearm that is not identified by a serial number only if federal law requires that a serial number be stamped, engraved, cast, or otherwise conspicuously placed on the firearm.

Because federal law does not require a serial number on the firearm that Vagle possessed, we
reverse."

 

[Gutschott]

I don’t believe for one minute that any court in MN is interested in upholding the 2nd A of the COTUS.

And I'd go so far as to say that the whole case was drummed up just to get it in the news to get the natives stirred up so they could make a law against it.

 

[Not Fred]

I am obviously not a lawyer but an scratching my head trying to determine how you can be charged with a crime that violates no laws? And how in the heck was the charge originally reinstated on appeal?

...

I don't know if it happens a lot, but it seems to happen way too frequently. The novel application of an existing law by a prosecutor either trying to make a name for themself or grasping for some way to punish someone for legal behavior they don't like.

 

[PolymerMan]

And I'd go so far as to say that the whole case was drummed up just to get it in the news to get the natives stirred up so they could make a law against it.

It would not surprise me. Its Minnesotta, the land of Lefty Gov. Tim Walz.

They were trying to pass a law in the state legislature to ban "Ghost Guns" in 2023, but the legislative bill fizzled away.

 

[INV136]

I am obviously not a lawyer but an scratching my head trying to determine how you can be charged with a crime that violates no laws? And how in the heck was the charge originally reinstated on appeal?

It is concerning because I normally go about my day while not committing crimes.

"The question before us is whether Vagle’s possession of the firearm violated section 609.667(3).

We conclude that section 609.667(3) criminalizes the possession of a firearm that is not identified by a serial number only if federal law requires that a serial number be stamped, engraved, cast, or otherwise conspicuously placed on the firearm.

Because federal law does not require a serial number on the firearm that Vagle possessed, we
reverse."

Maybe because it's Minnesota and Minnesota is a state run by demokrats? Enough said. This isn't the first time activist, demokrat corrupt judges have made corrupt decisions. Did you miss 2024 when several states prosecutors (GA and NY) tried to prosecute and convict Donald Trump for false allegations and a made up, hybrid state/federal Frankenstein law that should never have been brought to a Grand Jury and still ended up with a conviction in a very corrupt and biased NY state court???? Really?

 

[ken98k]

BTW: What is a Ghost Gun??? Is it spooky?

There is no such thing as a "ghost gun."
“Ghost gun”, is a term coined by the leftist media as part of their agenda to ban home crafted firearms.

I must surmise that members here on this and other gun boards, who choose to use this and similar “assault weapon” terminology, are if fact themselves anti-gun, anti American leftist.
Or could it be that users of this leftist terminology are of such low intelligence that they just don’t know any better?

 

[PolymerMan]

There is no such thing as a "ghost gun."
“Ghost gun”, is a term coined by the leftist media as part of their agenda to ban home crafted firearms.

I must surmise that members here on this and other gun boards, who choose to use this and similar “assault weapon” terminology, are if fact themselves anti-gun, anti American leftist.
Or could it be that users of this leftist terminology are of such low intelligence that they just don’t know any better?

Yes I know. Hence why when I use it I regularly put it in quotation marks... "Ghost Gun", to highlight the term.

It really is a contrived term invented by the gun grabbers and the what they, the gun grabbing scoundrels try to do is 'convolute'... or entangle up the difference between an illegal gun whereby the serial number has been altered, obliterated, or milled off, (which is illegal) from a gun that is made at home by the gun owner, either from scratch such as a printed 3D lower frame, or from an 80% kit and completed by the owner. That is what the anti-2nd amendment crowd and prosecutors are trying to do, and the leftist media is all in on using that term to further confuse the distinction between a firearm that had a legitimate serial number and it got obliterated on purpose and a gun that was made by the owner for their own use.

... and it is working. That may be why the case started with a motorist that got arrested for having a gun with no serial number. Clearly the state Trooper and the prosecutor drank the cool-aid. That term, "Ghost Gun" is now being used by many to reference both the guns that have their serial numbers obliterated (illegal), such as stolen guns, and perfectly legal 80% kit guns that were made from kits. It why this State Supreme Court ruling did what it did. I haven't seen any of the legal documents and I don't know if the court itself used the term "Ghost Gun" or used home made gun, printed gun, 80% kit gun, etc.

 

[Mad Dog Earle]

I don't know if it happens a lot, but it seems to happen way too frequently. The novel application of an existing law by a prosecutor either trying to make a name for themself or grasping for some way to punish someone for legal behavior they don't like.

It’s almost a certainty in legal circles that most…if not all…prosecutors want to be state attorney general…then maybe governor. That’s just within the state systems. I was a federal LEO and it was commonly held that all US Attorneys wanted to be the US Attorney General or higher.

In the federal system there’s a unofficial but real rule that to take a criminal case to felony court that a case must meet one of three criteria…1) be a crime of violence…2) at least $10k financially…or 3) be a media case where the US Attorney gets lots of face time on the news.

 

[ether]

Don't you just love American Jurisprudence?

Today its legal, tomorrow its not, next week its legal again but only on rainy days. We really need all this craziness cleared up. I hate the guessing game we have with firearm laws, rules and regulations.

I hear ya. Make a law and stick to it, but don't jerk the LEOs around based on Executive branch "rulings" or "moods". If you can't get legislation passed to make different LAWS, better luck next time.