[ian01]

Can someone explain this to me? The two below sections from Brown's FAQ page seem to be contradictory- but I really don't know.

We recommend high quality Federal or Winchester ammunition, and nothing else. In our years of testing and experience, ammunition by these makers has proven to be of consistent high quality. The core of our function testing is done with Federal 230 grain FMJ, which is great self-defense ammunition. For accuracy, the Federal 185 grain Gold Metal Match ammo tends to produce the best groups. *

4. Make sure your recoil spring is correctly matched to the ammunition you are shooting. When you have the proper weight recoil spring for a particular load, ejected brass should land 8-12 feet away. If brass is falling within a few feet of you, your spring is too heavy for that load. If brass lands more than about 12 feet away, your spring is too light for that load. Either case leads to reduced reliability. A common problem is a novice shooter trying to "shoot anything and everything" through his 1911 from 185 grains up to 230 grains without considering the proper recoil spring setup. Another common problem is the novice buying a carry gun with a shorter slide, then shooting the hottest personal protection ammo he can get, while ignoring the recoil spring and ejection pattern. For the ultimate in reliability, we recommend choosing a consistent high quality load and sticking with it once it's proven to work well with your particular setup.

I've shot many different grains, but currently shoot 230 grain Hornady TAP ammo through my Special Forces. My SF has the stock recoil spring- can someone "school" me in recoil springs? How many options do I have and what do you think I need? Also, how often does it need replacement?
Thanks!

 

[FAAPOD]

There are certainly those here more knowledgeable than me, but I'll take a stab at it. Sometimes 1911s are finicky with different brands and weight of JHPs. The two statements aren't contradictory, really.

Brown is talking about people running lower quality ammo, or trying to run certain JHPs when they just won't run good in a specific gun. Sometimes, the results are inconsistent. For example, of manufactured 230 g JHPs, I have found that Remington Golden Sabres run best in my KC. However, I recall a discussion here where another member (can't remember who at the moment) couldn't run Golden Sabres through his KC at all. I don't remember now what he said ran best for him. Sounds like you're having good luck with the Hornady TAP, so keep using it. I have had good luck hand loading with the Hornady bullets.

From spending some time around here and just reading a bunch of threads, I have come to the conclusion that this phenomena isn't unique to any specific gun manufacturer, nor is it that uncommon.

The recoil spring that came with your gun from Brown are fine for what you are shooting. Replace it every couple thousand rounds or so. Wolff springs are excellent replacement springs.

 

[scw2]

ian01,

Good question and good answer from FAAPOD.

As a further answer, in my gun closet, I have 45 pistol rounds ranging from light 160 grain CorBon DPX to 230 grain Buffalo Bore Meplat rounds. The CorBon 160 grain rounds are hollow points designed to open up as they enter a non-paper target and are not particularly fast. I like them for Commander length guns due to their low recoil and copper bullet designed for deep penetration. The 230 grain Buffalo Bore Meplat rounds are flat nosed rounds designed to break bones and then penetrate into a bear's head.

The light Corbon load cycles beautifully with a recoil spring two pounds below Brown's recommended standard. The Buffalo Bore may need four pounds above Brown's recommendation.

My belief is that a shooter should try out their combat loads and settle on one with reliability as a first criterion. I then try things like turning off the light in my lane and just using the interior range lighting to test muzzle flash. I always mate my defensive rounds to a particular weight spring and keep a record of what works in a notebook.

Just my way of dealing with the excellent advice in the Ed Brown instructions.

With regard to your question regarding shooting 230 grain TAP ammo through a five inch Government, the standard Ed Brown spring with a Government slide should work beautifully. If that set up is reliable for you in your practice shooting, you are set to go.

With regard to how many options you have on recoil springs, in a Government model you have a bunch. Check out Brownells web site for this information on Government slides. You will probably see from 12 pound to 22 pound recoil springs. However, for the load you are using, many of these will cause problems and even failures to cycle. Stick with what works.

Good shooting.

Craig

 

[Greyson]

I have run anything and everything through my Browns. I am not an ammo snob. Even steel cased Russian stuff.

My standard target round is WWB 230. If my pistol will not run WWB 230, I start tweaking it until it does. Period. My logic is I can always find it in bulk packs at most Walmarts nationwide should I choose. At least before Obama. But my logic still stands.

My carry round is Federal Hydra-shoks. Notice I didn't say what weight? Why? Easy. 230g ammo in a Commander isn't optimal for the FPS needed to open up a hollow-point. As such, I tend to run 160's to 185's in these. Not that I haven't run 230HP when I didn't have a choice.

Now for ammo from Brown. They are a manufacturer. As such, they want to eliminate ammo from the calculus of problems a user may be having. As such, they "officially" recommend those two quality makes. It's the makes not the weight they are concerned about.

Further note: The most accurate 45 rounds tend to be 185g. You will see many SD makes in that weight and many target weights for competition as well.

Standard springs weights for Colt (We are talking COLT) 1911 sizes (others will disagree) is 16# for 5" guns. And 18# for Commanders. When looking at FAQs for Brown make sure you are looking at FAQ for "1911 parts" not "Ed Brown 1911s".

Brown ships is 5" with 18# and his commanders with 20#. The reason being he doesn't make race guns. And figures most if not all of his customers will want to be able to shoot hotter SD/+P ammo in their guns. As such, he springs them to modern 1911 standards which is a little heavier that the "original Colt" standard. Almost all modern production runs these weights. Almost.

Now for hand-loads. Look. Ed Brown was a long time pistol competitor. Long time. He ran hand loads. He knows you run hand-loads. Especially for high volume shooters. They just don't "officially" talk about to try to make their pistols work with all hand loads. Too many variables. Their opinion is if you hand-load, you know what you are doing and they aren't going to get in involved with it.

Factory ammo I have had problems with. I once purchased a whole case of CCI 230 ball that wasn't crimped properly. Wouldn't run for crap in my Browns. I had to eat it and set it aside. Years later, I upgraded to better mags (ACT) and low and behold! The crappy CCI ammo ran like a top. Read into this what you will.

Closing note: WWB 230 target ammo is very weak. 230 Winchester military match ammo is very strong in comparison. Some 185 ammo be weak. Some 185 ammo is be fast and strong. You have to man up and start to pay attention to what ammo you run and what results.

Final closing note: Personally I spring my Brown up from their factory standards. I run 20# in my Commanders (factory) I run #20 in my 5" (+2). I have seen a Brown Commander sprung up to #22 form the factory for a users ammo/mag requirements. No issues. A buddy and I just for giggles sprung his 5" up to 24# with WWB and cheap cast SWC 185s and it ran no problem. This was just a test, BTW. The point is you are not close to over springing your pistol should you upgrade. Again, others, will disagree.

Final, final, final closing note: If you don't label you mags, you are just asking to get kicked in the balls. Magazines are consumable. That means they are disposable. That means they wear the F. Out! Training. Carry. Dropping them on the ground (you do drop your empties right? You better.) With all of this going on, how in the world can you look at your mags and know which one are which since they all don't wear out evenly?

Bam! Bam! jam...clear. When finished. Look at the mag. Oh. Mag #4. Note that. 30 minutes later. Bam. Bam. jam....clear. When finished, look at the mag. Oh. Mag #4 again. File that away. Repeat as necessary.


Regards,
Greyson

 

[scw2]

Greyson is 100 percent correct in mentioning ammo and mags as major factors in reliability. I believe that some ammo occasionally significantly varies from factory spec, and that can cause major problems and cause you to question the wrong thing like recoil springs.

I don't understand why mags are so hard to make, but I have sent some back to the manufacturer in as little as 100 rounds to be replaced with the same model mags that then worked fine. I am missing something, because mags look like pretty simple instruments to consistently make to me.

To get back to topic, I too think that recoil spring weight is only one factor.

Regards,

Craig

 

[Greyson]

I apologize for the typos and grammar problems in my above post. I was typing faster than my mind could think. :biglaugh:


Regards,
Greyson

 

[scw2]

ian01,

I replace 5 inch recoil springs every 2,000 rounds; Commander length every 1,000 rounds.

This may be overkill, but I figure as much as I have spent on these guns, they better damn well work if I need them.

Regards,

Craig