RIA slide stop issue.....

RIA has a lifetime warranty for factory defects, so if you can spare the gun for a few weeks, call RIA to discuss the issue, and see if they will fix it.

If you take it to a good pistolsmith that knows 1911's and works on them, I am sure it can be fixed.....but why spend the money if RIA will fix it.....they will usually send a return authorization, so shipping should be free as well.

 

And you might void the warranty if you let someone else work on it.

 

I'd love to send the pistol back to RIA and let them inspect it with the warranty, unfortunately I'm not from the US so that's not an option. (It IS possible, but it'd be an enormous hassle) Also the shop where I bought it flat out refuses to admit that there is a problem, they simply say its an ammunition issue.

I'm pretty sure its just a tiny little issue somewhere that super easy to fix once identified, I just have not found it yet.

 

The weird thing is, it seems the be somewhat power and projectile related, when I handload very low power 200 grain flat point plated lead bullets ( ~ 700 fp/s) it works most of the time, so does a friends very weak 230 FMJ load, but if I just increase the load the slide stop failing issue gets worse as the powder goes up.

What you are describing sounds like mag spring or follower-tube issues to me. Have you brushed out, cleaned & inspected the mags?

Also try a quality recoil spring at (or at least closer to) a known rating. The stock RIA springs really suck.
The recoil spring may be too stout and overrunning the magazine.

 

I have inspected the mags, they are super clean and factory new. The followers travel without any kind of noticeable friction. They're all new and from MecGar, the others that came with the gun are ActMag's.

As for the spring, I noticed that a friends S&W 1911 recoil spring feels like 40% weaker than that of my RIA when I rack the slide. You think the slide moves forward so fast the slide stop has no time engaging the slide notch, or it just gets bumped out of the way when its halfway out?

Do you have any recommendation for the spring strength? I'm fairly new to 1911's and have no idea what spring strength they normally run.
I could also shorten the spring a few loops at a time. Like a surgeon, cut out some stuff and see if things improve. :biglaugh:

 

I had a very similar issue on a Rock Island GI model several years ago. Had a new slide stop installed/ fit and the problem went away.
Not sure if it's your fix just thought it might help

 

I had a very similar issue on a Rock Island GI model several years ago. Had a new slide stop installed/ fit and the problem went away.

That's the first thing I tried, an entirely new slide stop did not fix the issue, sadly.

 

I had a RIA Pro Ultra Match (Model 51434). It had failure to lock back after last round almost 90% of the time with the factory mags.

Bought a Fusion firearms slide stop for around $20 and problem solved. Fit perfect with no modding necessary. Here's a link to the part:

https://fusionfirearms.com/1911-slide-stop-45-acp-standard-black

Can't promise it will work for you, but did the trick for me.

The only other issue I had was that the extractor was a little on the loose side as far as tension goes. It always ejected, just a little erratic where the brass was landing.

Other than that, the gun looked great and more importantly shot accurately. Sold it last year to get a SA Range Officer in 9mm. More friendly recoil.

Good luck. You will get it sorted out.

 

The weird thing is, it seems the be somewhat power and projectile related, when I handload very low power 200 grain flat point plated lead bullets ( ~ 700 fp/s) it works most of the time, so does a friends very weak 230 FMJ load, but if I just increase the load the slide stop failing issue gets worse as the powder goes up.

Might be that the "dent" for the pin isn't quite deep enough, and recoil is causing the slide-stop to jump up - or the bullets in the mag are contacting the slide-stop from the inside and nudging it up under recoil.

 

This seems strange. There is plenty of contact with the slide stop and follower in the pic. Have you tried to take the frame only and put the slide stop in place and then insert the mag? See if you can do this and push the follower and mag sideways away from the slide stop. Can you do this and make the follower skip over the slide stop? If not I suspect you had two issues: 1 ) a bad slide stop that you fixed already and 2) you don’t have full power loads cycling the pistol fully. Use some full power loads

 

Only once did I manage to make the slide stop slip past the follower and jam the magazine, that was with the pistol assembled and working the slide over and over again, very slowly. The new slide stop has a significantly larger area where it contacts the follower, as you can see in the picture, so I am pretty sure THAT problem is gone.

Problem is with the new slide stop it still fails to lock open most of the time. I've not had the chance yet to shoot more than two magazines with the new slide stop but it failed to lock open both times, with two different magazines, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

I think the ammo I ran through the gun was plenty powerful, it was Fiocchi and Geco 230 ball and my own reloads, H&N copper washed 200 grain which I chrono'ed at 965 fp/s. Not quite +P level but no wimpy target load either. In fact, the only time it worked halfway reliably was with a friends super LOW POWERED 230 grain ball target load at somewhere around 700 fp/s. It was a seriously wimpy load.

What I'm gonna do now is play around with the recoil spring, I got me a set of springs ranging from 14 to 19 lbs, I'll try them all out and see of something happens, ideally something positive. I also got me a Wilson recoil buffer just to mess around, maybe it does help?

Its an excellent pistol, I totally love it and I am super accurate with it, I just have to work out this annoying problem somehow.

 

The buffer can cause more slide locking problems. Search for info in the forum and you will see many more complaints than praises.

 

Yeah I know! I'm just a hopeless optimist!

 

So I just got the spring kit, what I had not realized when I ordered it that this was a progressive rate spring kit. Is there any advantage disadvantage to that?

I installed the 17lbs spring and cycled it a couple times, it unlocks very easily and comes to a rather sudden stop within the last 3/4 inches of its travel.

 

So I just got the spring kit, what I had not realized when I ordered it that this was a progressive rate spring kit. Is there any advantage disadvantage to that?

Progressive springs are "softer" when they first start to compress, making it easier to start pulling the slide back. The spring rate then increases as it compresses. So they act like a lighter spring with the slide forward, and a heavier spring with the slide back.

I installed the 17lbs spring and cycled it a couple times, it unlocks very easily and comes to a rather sudden stop within the last 3/4 inches of its travel.

Is the slide stopping short of its full travel?

If so, it is experiencing coil bind (coil stacking). The spring is reaching solid compressed length before the slide has reach the end of its travel. This is one cause of broken bushings.

Assemble everything except the recoil spring. Pull the slide back as far as possible, and mark its position on the slide. Then install the spring and check that the slide can still be pulled back to the marked position.

The slide position can be marked on pieces of tape placed on the slide and frame.

-

 

A real quick but valid test for a recoil spring installation in a standard 1911 set-up is to lock the slide back, then hold it back that extra little bit. Now use your other hand to try to push in on the recoil spring cap with a finger or maybe a pencil eraser end. If it moves at all, there is no bind. If it doesn't move, there is bind. This may be a technically perfect set-up where the spring doesn't stack until the slide is exactly back all the way, but you would never actually do that on purpose - you need that tiny little bit of clearance - its more likely that it is stacking early which can break the barrel bushing.
Obviously if you can't lock it back its stacked way early.

 

Given that the problem is similar for two different slide stops, I wonder if there is an issue with where the slide stop engages the slide itself? Can you post a pic of that area on the slide?

 

The help I am getting here is top notch, thanks guys!

Unfortunately I cannot do the spring test, my RIA has the full length frame and the full length guide rod. The only way I could get down there between the guide rod and frame would be by using a small screwdriver, but I don't want to mess up the finish.-

But when I rack the slide of the pistol all the way back it does feel a little softer than you'd expect from a solid metal-to-metal surface. I guess it does feel like stopping on a fully compressed spring.

The weird thing is, the heaviest spring, the 18lbs one, does allow full travel and with it installed I get the solid metal-to-metal feel and sound when racking the slide to its full stop, just like when racking the slide without a spring installed.
I'm going to go with that spring and gradually shorten it if I encounter issues. Does a 1911 run properly with a 18lbs spring and non +p 230 grain loads?

Here are the springs, the black one is the original spring, the yellow one the progressive 17lbs spring.

Here is the slide stop notch:

This is the max slide travel I get without a spring installed, but with the 18lbs spring I get the same travel.

 

admittedly fishing a little here ... but there is a small marking towards the forward edge of the slide stop notch on the slide? Is that catching at all on the slide stop? If yes, could a slight easing of the matching surface on the slide stop itself be needed? Wondering if there is just enough interference to prevent the slide stop from moving into the notch during rapid movement under recoil?

 

Just checked it, those small markings are just little oil drops. The slide stop notch is clean and I cannot see any burr, scratch or machine marking that could interfere with its function.

As I said, dry cycling the gun the slide stop works every time just as intended.

 

1911 recoil springs.....

You mentioned you are using a shock buff.....it so, that may potentially cause the slide to "short-stroke" from coil bind...….

I am not sure where you purchased the yellow recoil spring, but IMHO, the best springs are sold by Wolff gun springs. They produce springs for most all handguns and handgun magazines.....

Their web URL is: www.gunsprings.com

 

You mentioned you are using a shock buff.....it so, that may potentially cause the slide to "short-stroke" from coil bind...….

I am not sure where you purchased the yellow recoil spring, but IMHO, the best springs are sold by Wolff gun springs. They produce springs for most all handguns and handgun magazines.....

Their web URL is: www.gunsprings.com

I wish I could get Wolff springs over here, but couldn't find any. The ones I got are made from Eeman tech. Might have to order a Wolff spring kit.

I'm NOT using a shock buffer, just got me some and thinking about trying them out, but it probably wont help the problem any.

 

Some good advice and some incorrect info has been posted here.

Slide stops should not automatically be considered to be "drop in" and may require some fitting to work correctly. Although this is not the issue you are reporting, in your photo above the slide stop is not going fully into engagement with the notch. I would inspect that and adjust so that it does. You can see how high the slide stop goes without the slide in place and check that against how high it goes with the slide in place. I like to see it all the way to the top of the slide notch with full contact along the rear face of the notch inboard of the edge. You may have to radius the top rear corner of the engagement lug to allow the lug to go fully up into the notch. I put a light chamfer on the outer rear face of the stop's slide engagement lug to move the contact patch inboard. Sometimes the slot behind the engagement lug is not deep enough and limits upward movement as it contacts the bottom edge of the slide. That can be deepened with a narrow safe sided file. All of that to prevent peening of the notch.

To can check for coil bind by removing the recoil spring, pulling the slide all the way to the rear, holding it there while putting a piece of tape across the side of the slide and frame (cut it between the slide and frame), and making a mark on the tape. Then reinstall the recoil spring and plug, pull the slide to the rear, and check to see that the marks align. If they do, you're good. If not you have coil bind and must address that.

Shock buffs DO NOT cause coil bind EVER. The available spring space is totally determined by the depth of the slide tunnel as measured from the rear face to the inside of the front of the recoil spring plug. Shock buffs MAY cause problems with the slide locking back due to specific manufacturing tolerances on a particular gun - recoil spring guide seat, recoil spring guide head thickness, slide tunnel rear face, slide stop notch location, etc. Those tolerances can be adjusted on some guns to eliminate the problem if you want to run a shock buff. Thinner buffs can be used, too.

The devil is in the details.

A copy of the 1911 blueprints might be helpful - http://brlcad.org/design/drafting/M1911-A1_REDUX.pdf

 

'follower rode past the slide stop and jammed the magazine in place'

That happens. Hold the slide back and push the follower down with your finger or a pencil. Watch out because this is like loading a Garand!

 

Shock buffs.....

The OP stated he will not be using a shock buff....and think that is a good idea.

Years ago, I used shock buffs in my STI 2011 race gun with a FLGR. During a local match, the shock buff separated and jammed the gun.....

Shock buffs DO NOT cause coil bind EVER.

I guess it depends on the user..... If you take a 1911 Commander with a FLGR, then use the wrong recoil spring (like an 18# full length recoil spring designed for a 5" 1911 gun, use a reverse recoil plug, and the recoil rod has a thick head, and a person uses a thick shock buff.....it may not work!

 

If you take a 1911 Commander with a FLGR, then use the wrong recoil spring (like an 18# full length recoil spring designed for a 5" 1911 gun, use a reverse recoil plug, and the recoil rod has a thick head, and a person uses a thick shock buff.....it may not work!

Goodness! Is there anything else you could think of to overfill a commander recoil tunnel??
Joe

 

Hi Water Sleeps, sorry to hear it has not been solved. A progressive spring is certainly an option, but it's kind if a specialty choice. You aren't running an Open gun with a comp. Maybe try to stay with just a boring ol' 16# standard linear rate springs that 95% of us use.
A slide stop does need to be fit just like nearly everything on a 1911. You may get lucky with a drop-in, but it will be better if fit properly.

I'd check what Andy posted regarding potential bullet nose contact with the slide stop. You did mention that you thought it was ammo related and 200SWC did not exhibit the issue.

Also check the SS detent/plunger spring assembly. Pull the safety & check it out. RIA's springs are not so hot. Yours may not be working well or could be a burr or debris in the plunger tube.

 

Breaking news!

I went to the shooting range today and let another guy shot my troubled 1911, while I watched the pistol - when the gun failed to lock back in the last shot it always barely ejected the brass, it just gently jumped out of the gun a couple inches and dropped on the floor next to the shooter. (With the original 16 lbs spring)

Ejection was extremely poor and straight up, but when it DID lock back the brass was ejected just like you'd expect from a hot .45.
Since the ammo was fine and we tried two different brands we came to the conclusion that every now and then something happens that robs the slide of velocity and the slide would not come all the way back to engage the slide stop notch, also resulting in extremely poor ejection. (We shot it single-handed to absolutely make sure that our hands would not interfere with the slide)

Puzzled by our discovery we could not find anything that could cause that much drag or resistance causing the slide to lose velocity, but we discovered a problem with the extractor. When putting empty brass on the breech the extractor would be too far away from the rim of the brass to hold it properly in place. It does not appear to be damaged or bent.
The extractor might be frozen in place or something, What I'm gonna do now is disassemble everything and give the gun a good cleaning,
and I will take a close look at the extractor.

Also, I tried the 18lbs recoil spring, the only result I got was lots of failures to eject, the brass cases would get crushed between the slide and the top wall of the barrel so violently they split and were torn apart.

I'd check what Andy posted regarding potential bullet nose contact with the slide stop. You did mention that you thought it was ammo related and 200SWC did not exhibit the issue.

It does work somewhat better with my very low powered truncated cone lead plated loads and very low power 230 ball - that's why I thought this was a spring issue - but all ''normal'' loads no matter the bullet types fail equally. Today when I shot it it failed with all brands. I checked the slide stop from brass marks or other signs of projectiles rubbing but could not find anything suggesting such problem does exist with my gun.

 

This latest piece of info may be the clue. Try the Hilton Yam mag out extractor test. This is loading a round in the chamber using the mag and shoot. Observe how the empties are ejected. If the cases dribble over the side or drop through the magwell the extractor is dropping the case. It may not be a tension issue. If the extractor tensioning wall is beveled too far up to enhance feeding then it can’t hold onto the case simply because there no metal there to make contact. Additionally, a clocking extractor could allow the same issues.

When the mag is in the pistol, an extractor dropping the case can still hold it enough to drag it back against the ejector, kicking it out haphazardly. The weak ejection you observed may very well be the case bouncing around in yhe pistol during ejection. Additionally, after the last round is fired a dragged case is jammed between the feed lips of the magazine, slowing the slide and quite possibly ruining the magazine.

I am not this is the problem but it is a possibility

 

I'd try another Magazine

stick with Wilson or Chip McCormick Power Mags (or the various PM variants). Wilson or Chip McCormick Power Mags (or the various PM variants). I "kind of like" MecGar in CZ75Bs or BHPs......everything else, well, they aren't my first choice. I'm with BBBill, the devil's in the details. I'd send it back to RIA (remember to include all the Magazines) I'd also go with sending it back to RIA, Arnel will square it away. Or, take it to a good Gunsmith. I'm not big on Long Distance Internet troubleshooting.

 

I wish I could send it back to RIA, I would have done that a long time ago if that had been an option, but I'm from overseas.

So I pulled the extractor and firing pin, I'm new to 1911's but I did not see anything that could cause a major problem here. No burrs, nothing seems bent out of shape, no dirt or metal shavings in the extractor channel or on the extractor. Cleaned the channel with a Q-tip, oiled it very lightly and put it all back in.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can make out something I don't.

Here is a picture of empty brass and how it is not held properly against the breech. I think.

The extractor:

And here is a picture of the extractor holding a live cartridge (firing pin is removed). As you can see, there is quite a gap between the breech and bottom of the cartridge. I thought about slightly bending the extractor inwards, the problem is the way it is right now the cartridge already touches the left side of the frame. If I bend the extractor there would be too little space for the cartridge.

 

… Here is a picture of empty brass and how it is not held properly against the breech. I think.

And here is a picture of the extractor holding a live cartridge (firing pin is removed). As you can see, there is quite a gap between the breech and bottom of the cartridge. I thought about slightly bending the extractor inwards, the problem is the way it is right now the cartridge already touches the left side of the frame. If I bend the extractor there would be too little space for the cartridge.

Different problem. Read this thread for lots of answers to the extractor issue - https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=829865

 

Small update. Brought the pistol back to the shop where I bought it, we borrowed a lighter non-progressive spring (16lbs) from another 1911 and now the slide locks back every time, but I am also getting failures to feed wit5h all kinds of ammo.

Sometimes the slide would get stuck while stripping a new cartridge from the magazine, the round would end up in the chamber with the slide stuck on the magazine by pure friction. About 1-2 times per magazine the slide would also not go into battery because the extractor would not go over the rim of the cartridge. Tried to bend the extractor but that did nothing. Not sure why the cartridge does not slide under the extractor for controlled feed, the extractor looks good, edges are smooth, no burrs, proper tension as well.

Left the pistol at the dealer to fix it, after all its his obligation to get it working right. I have already have done more than enough. :barf: :barf:

 

slide stop issue

The one thing that keeps nagging at me, is the hole diameter on the bottom of the barrel link. Measure the hole on the barrel link and compare it to the diameter of the slide stop pin. I do not remember the dimensions. maybe some one here can help with that. Or take the slide stop and see if the barrel link moves smoothly. If there is to much friction, the slide stop will move up when you least expect it.