[Vklorto]

Is this even possible with a 1911? You see it over and over in the movies, the hammer is cocked manually (for effect and sound I guess) and then fired. No racking the slide. Is there a way to carry and chambered round and safely decocking the hammer?

Happy new year, stay safe,


VKlorto

 

[1911Jeeper]

Possible, yes. One of the stupid things you see in movies, yes. Dangerous practice that serves no logical or tactical purpose, yes.

Think about it for a second, the only way to lower a 1911 hammer, is to pull the trigger. One can hold the hammer, pull the trigger, and lower the hammer, but if you let go of the hammer, the 1911 is going to go BANG.

 

[Vklorto]

The movies love the hammer cocking sound effect. Sometimes you hear it and see the guy standing there with a glock too!!!!

 

[Denver1911]

Possible? Yes. Safe? Not really.

 

[Jim Watson]

Known as Condition 2, hammer eased down on a loaded chamber.
Even Jeff Cooper found use for it, and I did it for a while; with no ADs while lowering the hammer.

 

[USMM guy]

Easy enough to do.

I did it for a while. Got away from it. Not a good idea for a number of reasons.

 

[mkk41]

Movies are extremely gun facts ignorant. Can't count the number of time I've seen/heard the actor thumb-cocking a Glock or XD or other striker pistol , with audible clicks.

Arguments will endure , but it is widely believed that hammer down on a live round is the way JMB designed the 1911 (1910) to be carried. Historical fact; JMB did not put the thumb safety on the 1911 pistol. Colt did. At the request of Cavalry officers as a way to temporarily safe the weapon. Didn't want mounted troopers shooting their horse in the head trying to lower the hammer.

No lock Ma!


The Polish VIS P-35 Radom , often called the last cavalry pistol was basically a 1911 with hammer drop/decocker. It was obviously meant to be carried hammer down on a live round.

 

[chaosrob]

A friend of mine put a bullet through another of our friends windshield on his suv at the mall trying to decock his SA lol. He was extremely lucky no one was hurt and now carries a M&P

 

[mkk41]

The old , wide spur hammer allowed a more positive grip.

I have a book on the development of the 1910-1911 pistol , and it shows some really odd-looking prototype hammers.

 

[Oldspad]

1911, no no, Sig P220, OK...of course my Commander does not have a decock, and Sig does...Works for me.

 

[wccountryboy]

Can it be done? Yep. Can it be done safely? Nope.

As others have said, Condition 2 serves absolutely no functional purpose and its a risk to put the pistol in such a condition.

 

[bamashooter]

No big deal really. Bet there's been more NDs involving conditions other than intentionally letting the hammer down on a chambered round.

 

[Snapdragon]

I never have understood how it is more dangerous with a 1911 than it is with a revolver. I have been doing it one handed for over 40 years with a Series 70 with no unintended discharges. I have been doing it with single action revolvers for over 50 years with similar results.

I do keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction as I always do when handling a firearm.

It is more difficult with a beaver-tail grip safety to do it one handed. I use both hands on my 1911's with them.

 

[tipoc]

From Jeff Coopers conditions of carry it is known as Condition 2.

The 1911 was built with the intention of being able to safely lower the hammer on a live round and it can still be done safely today. With care and practice, of course. Condition 2 used to be quite a popular way to carry the gun. But with the rise of combat oriented competitive shooting Condition One became more popular and eclipsed it to the point that many today believe it is an unsafe way to have a gun around, period. Liability is also a factor in that a number of instructors simply teach that it is verboten.

There are a good many threads on this subject.

tipoc

 

[Paul 94]

Have lowered the hammer to 1/2 cock on double action revolvers, safety single action revolvers, lever rifles from Marlin and Winchester, Model 97 Win shotguns, several single-shot rifles and shotguns like Remington rolling blocks and Savage break-tops, and yes, 1911s, for 50 years. Have yet to have a ND. That said, for the last 15 years I have carried 1911s primarily in condition 1 with no issues at all, and it's the way I always carry now. But if you have any dexterity at all, it is not hard or horribly dangerous to lower the hammer for condition 2. This is mostly an issue talked about on this forum, have never seen it discussed anywhere else.

 

[wccountryboy]

I never have understood how it is more dangerous with a 1911 than it is with a revolver. I have been doing it one handed for over 40 years with a Series 70 with no unintended discharges. I have been doing it with single action revolvers for over 50 years with similar results.

I do keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction as I always do when handling a firearm.

It is more difficult with a beaver-tail grip safety to do it one handed. I use both hands on my 1911's with them.

The bulk of modern 1911s have beavertails and short hammers. An M1911/A1 is much more conducive to de cocking; revolvers are even more so- the ergonomics support it.

Just because it was considered an acceptable practice 100 years ago doesn't make it any less risky. With a single action revolver, there's times when you HAVE to decock... that old habit transitioned to the 1911. Shooting pistols one handed was the norm until the 60s; its not the most effective way to perform the task. We learn, we adjust, we modify, we evolve how we do things.

Regardless, there's still NO practical reason to put a 1911 in Condition 2, so why expose yourself or those around you to the risk?

 

[walks with gun]

It was pretty common years ago before beavertail safeties and bobbed hammers. Most of us that grew up with guns were so used to lowering a hammer on lever actions, revolvers and some shotguns, it seemed natural to do so on a 1911. myself, I've carried cocked and locked for over 30 years.

 

[Snapdragon]

I now carry a lightweight Colt Commander with a round hammer and beavertail in Condition 1.

I carried my full size Series 70 for many years with the hammer down with a loaded chamber. I could shoot it one handed with ease since I was brought up on a single action revolver. Cocking on the draw was no problem for me. Carrying it that way and getting it into that condition was no more dangerous that it was with a revolver with a transfer bar. It was a very practical way to carry the Colt Series 70.

Most people these days probably carry pistols with short hammers and beavertails unless they are going classic or mil spec. Those recent pistols are not as easy, as I mentioned above, to decock one handed and are somewhat harder to cock on the draw. That makes Condition 2 less desirable for those pistols.

Nobody except an evil aggressor is ever at risk from my gun handling since I control my muzzle. I hope the same is true for all of us.

 

[Imissedagain]

I never have understood how it is more dangerous with a 1911 than it is with a revolver. I have been doing it one handed for over 40 years with a Series 70 with no unintended discharges. I have been doing it with single action revolvers for over 50 years with similar results.
I do keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction as I always do when handling a firearm.
It is more difficult with a beaver-tail grip safety to do it one handed. I use both hands on my 1911's with them.

Thanks for posting that.
For 29 years my revolver has been locked in the safe with the hammer cocked and six rounds in that round thing. Can't open the loading gate to push those bullets out with the hammer all the way cocked.
I was told never to pull the lever that makes the gun go bang and lowers the hammer with live unfired bullets in the round thing.
Live and learn.

You all have a safe and productive 2015.
Sadtires can be humorous and dumb.
Now some Jack Daniels and ring in the new year.

 

[JoeReed]

On my smith and wesson, which is an old school 686, if I pull the trigger from the cocked position and then release it while I am lowering the hammer it gets to a point where some kind of internal control will prevent the hammer's firing pin from breaking the plane of the gap between the frame and the cylinder. I can feel when it does this.

(If I should keep the trigger pulled past this point that firing pin can and will try to cross that gap). So there is something present in the Smith's design that helps the operator avoid a problem when de cocking, as long as he or she handles the trigger properly. Is there something similar in the 1911s design?

I've been reading ad and nd threads and to be frank, it seems like just about every 1911 accidental or negligent discharge is from de cocking onto a live round. Second place would be carry without a holster protecting the trigger, or some other holster related miscue.