[johnbrowning1911]

You simply don't know if your gun will fail at a time of need.

This is true for ANY gun. The lock is only one of many reasons it might not fire. :bawling:

I am not a fan of the lock, however, substantive evidence of failures seems to be hard to find.

 

[Rick_A]

S&W was being boycotted when I purchased my first couple in the late 90's. They caved to political pressure from the Clintons. IIRC they were owned by the Brits at the time as well which didn't sit well with many. A change to MIM hammer/trigger and the frame mounted FP didn't sit well with traditionalists, either. In the early 2000's Safe-T-Hammer in the U.S. purchased them, and you got the locks.

There aren't enough people that are against the locks for it to make much of a difference, and there are plenty of "pre-locks" on the market that people are willing to pay like new prices for.

I think they should be offered both ways, as some on the Airweight and Airlite guns are, but that's unlikely as S&W has been mute on the subject for decades.

 

[tomadv]

The only way I could imagine the lock jumping out of the detent is if some one did not have it rotated fully to it's stop. That said I removed mine.
Then I sent my TRR8 to Apex to do every thing they can. I informed them that I removed the lock. They said to send it, and they installed it. Something about supporting the hammer? So if Apex builds reliable competition revolvers why would they install locks that would render a competition revolver unreliable?

 

[drail]

For the same reason you must install a shim when you remove the firing pin safety parts on a Ser. 80 Colt frame. Why would S&W machine the frame in a way that weakens it so that it needs an extra part for support? Cuz lawyers and politicians. They will be the end of us all....... Yes, guns can fail for multiple reasons but we certainly don't need to add more reasons in the belief they will protect dumb people from themselves or each other.

 

[Logos]

With the lock, you simply don't know if your gun might fail at the critical moment.

This is true for ANY gun. The lock is only one of many reasons it might not fire.

I've been doing this for 62 years and I've never had a gun fail to fire. Yes, I've encountered a few malfunctions and misfires, but they were rare and all could be overcome in a second or two and then the gun DID fire.

The lock malfunctions that I've read about (yes, there are a few reports out there that appear legit) have all DISABLED the gun.

I'll agree with you that the chances are slim, but why add to the things that could go wrong?

 

[drail]

I was selling and servicing and customizing S&W revolvers back when the Clintons blackmailed S&W and S&W were still actually handfitting their guns before the bean counters took over and S&W didn't own any CNC equipment. Everyone in the industry was disgusted but we figured if we ever got those Arkansas clowns out of the White House things would return to normal. We were wrong. It's a real shame what has happened to S&W. I am very glad I got every S&W I wanted back in the old days. My advice is if you want a nice S&W - buy an original vintage model. Even if it needs a tuneup or refinishing you'll be better off.

 

[Rick_A]

MIM and CNC are not the devil.

Handmade stuff on manual machines is costly these days.

The vintage guns are not masterpieces, either. There's more manual labor time involved but that doesn't necessarily equate to a better product. The external finishes and hand fit grips were exceptional, but that's about where the romance ends for me.

 

[Snorkel]

After reading all the discussions here, it looks as though I'm better off if I wait and find a pre-lock model. It may be a while though, cause like I said earlier, that is the first used 686 I've seen in over a year. Luckily though, there's no rush.

I have seen some on gunbroker, but I've never purchased a firearm online and I'm a little hesitant to buy one without first looking at it myself. If it were NIB, I wouldn't mind. But buying used, online, makes me a little nervous.

I appreciate everyones input and opinions. Thank you!

 

[Logos]

Do you stake out the Cabela's Gun Library on their website like I do?

There is good stuff there if you are watchful and quick.

The $25 it costs to have it sent to your local Cabela's is trivial on an important purchase.

 

[Snorkel]

Do you stake out the Cabela's Gun Library on their website like I do?

There is good stuff there if you are watchful and quick.

The $25 it costs to have it sent to your local Cabela's is trivial on an important purchase.

I've never heard of it. But now that I've seen it, I will be.

Thanks!

 

[drail]

They do get some "good stuff" but their pricing seems kind of high to me.

 

[Logos]

You have to pay high prices to get good stuff.

Or you can be a cheapskate and get lucky every five years or so.

Life is too short to spend it with guns that are almost good stuff.

 

[1911crazy]

If you plug the loc it's no longer under warranty by s&w. I have older s&w and newer s&w revolvers.

I don't ccw my s&w guns anyway they cost too much.

 

[Rick_A]

If you plug the loc it's no longer under warranty by s&w. I have older s&w and newer s&w revolvers.

I don't ccw my s&w guns anyway they cost too much.

That's simply untrue. If it's sent without they replace it.

Some of the best S&W's for CCW are the least expensive.

What's price have to do with it anyway?

I carry the ones that shoot well. Some of them would be difficult to replace and one is irreplaceable. No matter.

 

[midwestfisherma]

So you boycott them and they go under.

Who really wins?

Ruger!

 

[Mehutch]

My S&W 586-7 with the plug installed,

 

[drail]

Still seems kind of silly to drill a hole in a nice frame knowing that it's just going to get "plugged" by the buyer.

 

[Logos]

I have two S&W revolvers, neither of which have the Internal Lock. I was looking at a used 4" Model 686 but it has the IL.

Is is possible to disable the IL or is that ill advised?

Why anybody would buy a new Smith revolver is a mystery to me.

There are many reasonably priced pre-lock Smiths available. Many have sat in a safe or a dresser drawer most of their lives and are virtually new.

They are a FAR, FAR better bet than the ones with locks.

 

[Mehutch]

Why anybody would buy a new Smith revolver is a mystery to me.

There are many reasonably priced pre-lock Smiths available. Many have sat in a safe or a dresser drawer most of their lives and are virtually new.

They are a FAR, FAR better bet than the ones with locks.

Logos - This is my S&W 586-7 Blue 4" 7 shooter, they are rare, in fact I did not know that they were ever made. A Blue 4" 7 shooter .357 Magnum (with a IL) is something I could not let go past me. However I knew I could install the 'Plug' (not quite the same as the old ones) but it was not a real deal breaker. I just installed the Wilson spring kit and the pull is like my other old school 686-4 Plus revolvers without the IL. I am very pleased with it. It is my only S&W gun with the IL. Would I buy another S&W IL gun? Maybe, maybe not. I have 12 S&W old style revolvers in several barrel lengths.

The older ones are not seen as often as they once were and they are a higher dollar item. A S&W model 29 4" Blue in box, near mint, old style is going for $1500 bucks. Would I buy it? Hell no, I got mine for $550. new. You see, it all depends on if 'you just gota' have it' price and IL mean little.

I remember lots of shooters would not buy a S&W revolver when it was owned by the British (at one time). That was stupid. A Smith is a Smith is a Smith & Wesson.

I hope this lifts the veil on the 'mystery' reasons.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

My take on the lock is that I don't need it.
There are no children with access to my guns, in fact, very few adults have access to my guns. There is a gun in every room of my house in a place I can easily reach it. If I am expecting a guest over, I put the house guns in my safe, the exception being the couple of shotguns leaning on walls.
I do like transfer bar firing pins and have a number of Rugers so equipped, never had a failure to fire with the exception of my 45 Colt Redhawk and that was faulty cowboy action ammo. It works fine with any other ammo.
A quick trip through my spreadsheet shows 15 revolvers in my safe. None of them have a lock. I just wish the J frames had an action more like that of the model 10 though.