The definition of long range is key here...I consider long range anything beyond 500 yards...If that's your standard, I don't think a .223/5.56 will have the legs you are looking for....And if it does, it will be an expensive rifle...
308 is a good all-around distance round and good all-around hunting round for North America...As you stated, it's available, and rifles in that caliber can be relatively inexpensive...
I have short cartridge 700's, Ruger Americans and Savage Axis IIs in the collection...All are tack drivers...Gun and a decent optic to ring steel at 600 yards (and beyond) can be put together for around 7-800 bucks...My .308 American with a Burris Fullfield does the job, and I have less than 700 wrapped-up in the package...

Good luck and happy shooting!!!!
Highway

 

I teach folks to shoot what they have first. If they like it and have fun, then we upgrade optics or go the intro rifle-scope route.

Friends I've taught have out-shot very expensive sniper rifles with Euro glass (individually costing more than some of the cars I've owned) with old Remingtons, Mausers, Winchesters, and a Mosin-Nagant with Tasco scope, shooting corrosive ammo out of Russian surplus tins -- out to 850 yards. It's not about the gadget, but the training behind it (the human and the software).

Since you handload, if your barrel twist supports it you can load .223 to give respectable results. 1-9 will handle most 75s, while a 1-8 or 1-7 will shoot 80s from 500 to 1,000 yards.

 

Great points and I fully support. Learn to shoot with what you have at 300, 400 and 500 and then decide how much time and effort and money you want to put into it. Any gun that will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards will work for that process. And like this comment said, even a $60 Tasco 3 x 9 x 40 will work on a sunny day shoot at black bullseyes on big white targets, any glass will do that on bright days. If your 1 moa gun will actually shoot 5 inch groups at 500 yards then you are well on your way and will do much better with a precision rifle.

The "precision rifle" does it's magic by adding a better trigger and going from a 9 pound rifle to a 14 pound rifle with a thicker barrel. You will not shoot any better but the gun will.

If you have any gun that will shoot 223 learn to shoot it at 300, then 400 then 500 yards and then decide what gun you want and what caliber you want.

I have a 223 I shoot for range with a 24 x target scope and it works great. My hunting rifles have hunting scopes and I have killed antelope out to 563 yards. The old deer I killed this year was 282 yards, a chip shot for my hunting gun, it is a Weatherby Vanguard 257 Wby mag. with a 4 x 16 x 50 Burris Fullfield IV scope on it.. I have taken 8 or 9 deer with it, the longest at 403 yards. That gun is a hunting gun but will easily take any animal I want well beyond 500 yards, if I know the range. The trick to distance shooting is to just do it. It is easier than you would think.

So, I agree with sinister, try it with whatever you have and once you are hitting at distance, then decide what new gear you want,

You mentioned the Ruger Predator, I have heard they shoot very well.

 

I'd give the .223 a miss in favor of the excellent .308 and efficient 168 grain to 180 grain bullets, Sierra Matchkings or whatever .30 caliber bullets du jour are popular and available at present.

 

what do you consider long range? it used to be 800 yds plus. do you want to compete? mid range is 400-800. roughly. if you truly want to try long range go to some matches, learn what you can. after 10 or so matches you will have some idea of where you want to go. very, very few people can shoot long range. there are a lot of reasons for this. the big one is time. best, james

 

I shoot 1000-1200y but with a 6.5cm. My ar .223 hits to 600 easy with Leupold ar 3x9 optics.

 

Personally, I prefer .243 Win for precision shooting. It's not as trendy or sexy as "x.x Creedmoor" or anything, but there are plenty of long-range precision shooters who like it (including pro-level shooters). It doesn't quite have the legs to stand with 6.5 at 1000 yards, but there aren't many places anywhere around here that have more than 300-600 yards anyway, so that's fine for me. It's soft-recoiling, pretty flat, and ammo / components are generally readily available.

I started dabbling in precision shooting a year or two ago, and the biggest thing that struck me like a sack of bricks is exactly how different it is from other shooting disciplines I've pursued over the years and exactly how LITTLE I knew about it. Fortunately, folks that have been in the game tend to be very forthcoming with helpful advice and guidance.

My local club has a 300 yard range. While that's not considered long-range (and many don't even consider it mid-range) shooting, it's plenty to teach me the fundamentals and let me chase small groups. We have a number of competition shooters that are members of my club and they're always willing to help.

Good luck. I hope you enjoy it!

 

Can't go wrong with a Rem 700 in .308. I did a lot of long range shooting on USMC teams with a match conditioned M-1 in 30/06. They went more towards the .308 and we've still got one of the old Navy MTU match M-1's in .308. There have been 1000 yard records set with the .223 and match conditioned guns. I still prefer the .30 cal (.308 or 30/36) for big bore shooting. Got a Rem 700 with a Brown Glass Stock in 30/06 and its a tack driver. Built it in about 1977? Semper Fi. Master cards for big bore, pistol, etc, etc. Distinguished Pistol and Presidents 100.

 

Unless you are very recoil tolerant, skip the .308. It is a great cartridge, I have one .308 rifle and am waiting a M70 in .308 to come it to be built into a scout rifle, but for what you want I would go straight to the 6.5 CM. Compare the drop and drift beyond 500 yards, consider the recoil when shooting long strings prone and the fact that paper targets have 1 hit point, and why would you throw more weight down range than necessary? As far as reasonable priced bolt rifles go, I would start with a Savage 110. It is amazing the success Savage has had with that rifle, the aftermarket support is second to none. Not saying there aren't better, but for a gun to build up, that is where I would start. Or just order a Ruger Precision Rifle and cut straight to the OMG, SCOPES ARE HOW MUCH?

 

My .243 is a Savage 110 action (bought many years ago to teach my kids to shoot). It's a great base to build from and is one of those that is easily user-upgraded with a better barrel. Savage really did a great job with the barrel nut design.

 

For what you'e describing the .308 would be an ideal starter platform. The caliber has been around for quite a while, and there is a wide variety of ammunition available, at least in relation to other calibers. Everyone has a slightly different idea of what "Long Range" is. The .308 will serve you well in the 1,000 range, even if other calibers are marginally superior, they're gonna cost you a lot more in the long run. If your idea of "Long Range" is doing KO2M competition, then the .308 ain't such a good choice.

 

Google: U,S, Army AMU Training Manual

Smiles,

 

Do you handload? A good .223 with high BC bullets is definitely a 600 yard rifle.
Over 600, skip the .308 and go 6.5.

Better yet, get a GOOD .22 LR and work your way out to 200 yards.

 

Do you handload? A good .223 with high BC bullets is definitely a 600 yard rifle.
Over 600, skip the .308 and go 6.5.

Better yet, get a GOOD .22 LR and work your way out to 200 yards.

I have built several AR's, that when loaded with my Hornady 75 gr or Sierra 77 gr match bullets, will routinely ring the little plates at 300 yards set up at my local range. Even with an LPVO scope it's quite easy. Look through scope, aim here, squeeze trigger, ring steel.

I have a friend who teaches long range sniping who introduced me to doing that with 22LR. He has a CZ in a chassis with a fancy target scope, While the best thing I have is my dad's old Marlin 25 with an equally old Lyman 4X12 steel tube target scope. I had to add shims to my scope to get enough elevation to even come close to the targets at 300 yards. Let me tell you, even with his rig, hitting a 6" gong at 300 yards will teach you all the necessary fundamentals of breath control, follow through, trigger control, how you hold the gun in the sand bags and with an almost 3 second flight time, reading the wind is most critical. Probably the most challenging shooting I've ever done.

Jeff

 

Don’t do it, it’s addictive……

 

.223 Remington or .308 either one will get you in tune with the required discipline. As has been stated .223 will, with the right gun and ammo run accurately out to +/- 600 meters. .308/7.62X51 a couple of hundred yards beyond that But if you are going to really reach out to the +/- 1,000 meter range you will have to step up to a thousand meter round. And you will have to put a lot of rounds down range to obtain any real level of proficiency.
I about wore out my first barrel on My AI rifle getting there. But in .243 Winchester running 115 grain Sierra D-tacs on top of H1,000 We finally got there. It is kind of like boxing, you have to put the rounds in.

 

Short and sweet. Start with what you got. As others have stated, it’s a significantly different discipline from other types of shooting. Takes lots of patience and learning.
You may also find it’s not to your liking, or perhaps your eyesight or other factors, such as long distance ranges preclude participating.

 

0-600. 223/5.56 is fine

600-800 308/7.62 is fine (with the right bullet/rifle some can stretch this a little)

800 + 6.5 creedmore

 

well was going to say get a 300 whby mag safari grade. But since coin fodder is in short supply I say a 6.5x55 a good long range round up to and beyond 2000 meters if in doubt ask the Russki's from the winter war that survived.
I have one 28 inch barrel Mauser 98 action 1in 8 twist
Tailor your rounds for the distance your shooting

 

5.56 wont ring or move a steel plate at 300 yards. I have no idea if I'm hitting anything with my AR's most of the time.

This is a problem for any aspiring rifle shooter. Even a high end spotting scope is only good so far out. And if you are shooting at a steel plate and hear it ring, WHERE did you hit it? And if it didn't ring, where and by how much did you miss? If I had stayed in F class with a friend's 600 yard range to practice on, I was seriously considering a target camera.

I say a 6.5x55 a good long range round up to and beyond 2000 meters if in doubt ask the Russki's from the winter war that survived.

The Finns were shooting 6.5 Swedish Mausers? I thought their main issue was Mosin Nagants except for the poor guy who got stuck with a 7.35 Italian. 2000 meters? Tell us more.

 

Instant feedback is critical when you're new.

It builds confidence and illustrates errors immediately.

5.56 wont ring or move a steel plate at 300 yards. I have no idea if I'm hitting anything with my AR's most of the time.

Go with a major caliber. .308 for a semi auto. 6mm Creedmore or larger for a bolt action.

Whatever rings steel the hardest.

 

I routinely shoot .308 at 1000 - 1200 yrds. Not an issue

 

I say seriously consider .308 or 30-06 in a high quality bolt action (Ruger Precision, Rem 700, Savage 10 are a few examples I'd consider) with decent glass. Tons of bullet weight/load options, good long range performance and energy.
You will need a spotting scope too.

Later: upgrade to better optics, which will cost as much or more than the rifle.

 

The new CZ 600 range, is what I'd like to try next.

Putting my olde Trijicon 5-20x on it.

 

it helps a lot to have a spotter. find a friend who also wants to shoot, perhaps a person you met when you went to the matches to observe. shoot together, coach each other, share loading chores, etc.

 

Second part of a 2 gun stage, first half with pistol running with ammo cans to the start line and then running another 30 yards to make the AR15 rifle shots. 125, 140, 175, 480y with heart racing and a tree stump. .223 55g my reloads, nothing special. And I can hear my hits on steel at 300y easy.

The picture below video link is what a 1000y looks like from the bench. With the RPR 6.5 and Nightforce optics I have I can see my hits at a 1000y on steel, no need for a spotting scope. Anything less than 800y is just not fun it's to easy. Golf balls at 300y all day (that's fun!). My 6.5 reloads give me .25" MOA, one hole. Silly ridiculous accuracy makes me laugh when I shoot it. The RPR 6.5 is an outstanding rifle.

AR 15 shots:

2020_1016_120608_002_x264.mp4

drive.google.com

1000y

The 6.5 beast

 

As someone else asked, what range (how far) will you be shooting?
What’s the budget? Because it starts to get pricy real fast…
Take a look at the Tikka T3X TAC A1, come in .308, 6.5cm, others as well. Sub MOA out of the box. Best bang for the $ imho. The Ruger RPR is very good also but I’ve shot both side by side And the tikka is just better. Check the reviews. You can set up a tikka with a decent glass/bipod for under 3k. I also shoot a Daniel Defense Delta5 in 6.5cm which is excellent also; lighter than the tikka without any big recoil to consider in 6.5. My .308 is a surgeon rifle/Accuracy intnl and not what you’re considering ( i don’t think). Have fun, it’s addictive.

 

Seems like .308 is the way to go as long as there are long enough ranges to use it. I could get the available .223 Ruger, start learning, ( I can get right into reloading since I already have pretty much everything I need.) Gotta check available ranges, how much for new dies for .308, bullets, brass, etc. Decisions, decisions.

 

keep a log so you don't repeat your mistakes reloading. a separate one on your shots, sight settings, results, weather.