I know that the .25 auto is very much on the weak side, but do you think it's true that they've actually been stopped by a heavy coat?
SpringerXD
.25 auto round stopped by a heavy coat?
There are well circulated urban legends about a 25 ACP being stopped by a biker jacket or barely breaking the skin in a head shot.
I find it plausible that a particularly week round could be stopped in such cases, and that a heavy jacket could significantly reduce the effectiveness of an already underpowered round. That a heavy jacket would regularly stop a properly made 25 ACP seems far fetched. Air rifles are less powerful, but can still defeat clothing and skin.
I find it plausible that a particularly week round could be stopped in such cases, and that a heavy jacket could significantly reduce the effectiveness of an already underpowered round. That a heavy jacket would regularly stop a properly made 25 ACP seems far fetched. Air rifles are less powerful, but can still defeat clothing and skin.
True story...
Friend had a gun shop and a Gansta type fired a .25 auto at the second floor (his room) bedroom window from the street level. The round went though the glass window through the screen and bounced off a small clay jar with out (very minor scratch) damaging it the round is very anemic and I do not doubt one bit that it can be stopped by a heavy coat.
Friend had a gun shop and a Gansta type fired a .25 auto at the second floor (his room) bedroom window from the street level. The round went though the glass window through the screen and bounced off a small clay jar with out (very minor scratch) damaging it the round is very anemic and I do not doubt one bit that it can be stopped by a heavy coat.
As a child I went deer hunting with Dad. He downed a deer and it was still alive, so he used a .25 auto to finish it off. Straight into the side of the deer's head from a distance of 2 inches, the first round broke the skin and bounced off the scull. It only knocked the deer out. When the deer revived, he fired another head shot. The slug stuck in the skull, and again knocked the deer unconscious but didn't kill it. So we shot it with the rifle.
Maybe a 25 auto is useful for knocking your attacker unconscious while you go get your rifle.
Maybe a 25 auto is useful for knocking your attacker unconscious while you go get your rifle.
I have seen a crime scene where a .45 was used. The perp shot through the window at point blank range (it was on a balcony at an apartment) and the metal blinds gave enough to stop the rounds between them and the window. Not all the rounds were stoped, I think their was a total of 5-6, but it did stop 2 of them.
Did you mean to say a .25 was used? If not, maybe I should upgrade from my XD 45 Compact.
:biglaugh:
Well I for one would NOT want to be the person in the coat to see if it would stop a .25 but it IS a very weak round.
when I was living down in New Orleans I knew the lady who worked at a Convienence store and it was robbed one night. The punk had already gotten the money and right before he left he shot her anyways right in the forehead. The bullet followed the curve of her skull and traveled under the skin and stopped right in the back crown of her head.
Needless to say she was very, very lucky and she quit that store and never went back again to work in it.
I used to carry a Raven .25 when I was 18 or 19 for protection. Where I was raised up at you needed it! I had a little holster for it and one day I caught a city bus and when I got off it was gone, I lost it in the seat of the bus which was just as well because it was a POS! I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it (I tried) but I didn't care. All I knew was I was COOL because I was packing! Probably good thing I lost it because I probably would have gotten in trouble with it! :rock:
when I was living down in New Orleans I knew the lady who worked at a Convienence store and it was robbed one night. The punk had already gotten the money and right before he left he shot her anyways right in the forehead. The bullet followed the curve of her skull and traveled under the skin and stopped right in the back crown of her head.
Needless to say she was very, very lucky and she quit that store and never went back again to work in it.
I used to carry a Raven .25 when I was 18 or 19 for protection. Where I was raised up at you needed it! I had a little holster for it and one day I caught a city bus and when I got off it was gone, I lost it in the seat of the bus which was just as well because it was a POS! I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it (I tried) but I didn't care. All I knew was I was COOL because I was packing! Probably good thing I lost it because I probably would have gotten in trouble with it! :rock:
Can't remember who did test while back 25 auto went 13" and 16+" in the Jell.
Don't bet on a coat.
I was at a robbery in 70's where woman was shoot in face across counter. 45 Auto 230 ball . It broke her nose and like others followed around and came out behind ear.
Nothing works 100% all the time Murphy see to that.
Don't bet on a coat.
I was at a robbery in 70's where woman was shoot in face across counter. 45 Auto 230 ball . It broke her nose and like others followed around and came out behind ear.
Nothing works 100% all the time Murphy see to that.
Admittedly this is second hand but - A friend that is a retired Sheriff's Officer and his (now ex) wife both had experiences with the aftermath of shootings with a .25 auto. In both cases the person being shot ended up with the bullets just under the skin, where they had been shot. His conclusion was that a .22LR in a three inch barrel is far more effective (and that ain't saying much) than a .25 auto.
Cartridge : Various .25ACP cartridges
Firearm : Beretta 21a with 2.4" barrel length
Calibration : 9.4 ± 0.05cm and 593 ± 0.500 ft/sec impact velocity.
Shot 1 - Remington UMC 50 gr MC. Impacted at 807 ± 0.500 ft/sec and penetrated to 14.0 ± 0.031". Recovered diameter was 0.250 ± 0.0005". Track outlined in light blue.
Shot 2 - Hornady 35 gr XTP JHP. Impacted at 931 ± 0.500 ft/sec and penetrated to 6.7 ± 0.031". Recovered diameter was 0.369 ± 0.0005". Track outlined in yellow.
Cartridges : CCI Blazer and Sellier and Bellot FMJ
Firearm : Beretta 21a pistol with 2.4" barrel.
Calibration : 10.0 ± 0.05cm and 587 ± 0.500 ft/sec impact velocity.
Impact velocities were not taken of the bullets, due to the indoor lighting present at the test area. The block was calibrated 1 hour prior to the test (in the outdoors) and returned to quasi-steady thermal equilibrium in a refrigerated space prior to the firearm test event. Velocities and performance obtained should be typical of .25ACP pocket pistols.
Shot 1 - Sellier and Bellot 50 grain FMJ. Penetrated to 13.3", no expansion present. Outlined in yellow on the photo.
Shot 2 - CCI Blazer 50 grain FMJ. Penetrated to 16" and exited the back of the block. Bullet was not recovered.
from brassfetcher.com
Firearm : Beretta 21a with 2.4" barrel length
Calibration : 9.4 ± 0.05cm and 593 ± 0.500 ft/sec impact velocity.
Shot 1 - Remington UMC 50 gr MC. Impacted at 807 ± 0.500 ft/sec and penetrated to 14.0 ± 0.031". Recovered diameter was 0.250 ± 0.0005". Track outlined in light blue.
Shot 2 - Hornady 35 gr XTP JHP. Impacted at 931 ± 0.500 ft/sec and penetrated to 6.7 ± 0.031". Recovered diameter was 0.369 ± 0.0005". Track outlined in yellow.
Cartridges : CCI Blazer and Sellier and Bellot FMJ
Firearm : Beretta 21a pistol with 2.4" barrel.
Calibration : 10.0 ± 0.05cm and 587 ± 0.500 ft/sec impact velocity.
Impact velocities were not taken of the bullets, due to the indoor lighting present at the test area. The block was calibrated 1 hour prior to the test (in the outdoors) and returned to quasi-steady thermal equilibrium in a refrigerated space prior to the firearm test event. Velocities and performance obtained should be typical of .25ACP pocket pistols.
Shot 1 - Sellier and Bellot 50 grain FMJ. Penetrated to 13.3", no expansion present. Outlined in yellow on the photo.
Shot 2 - CCI Blazer 50 grain FMJ. Penetrated to 16" and exited the back of the block. Bullet was not recovered.
from brassfetcher.com
A friend of mine was accidently shot in the leg once with a .25 at a party. Just below the kneecap and just outboard of the shin bone, in the meaty part. Only went in about an inch and stopped, no serious damage. The shooter did the old "clear the chamber, then drop the mag" unloading routine.
While working in the hospital in my first enlistment we had a scumbag wifebeater of a dependent husband brought into the ER. His wife had finally had enough of him and had bought herself a little Raven .25 IIRC. She never shot it till the day he tried to beat her again, only this time he told her he was going to kill her.
Across the room she shot a beautiful little three shot group, each one hit him in the sternum, center of chest. Each one broke the skin and stopped on the sternum, didn't even crack it.
He was screaming like some one was trying to amputate a limb with a rusty hack saw. The doctor, who was aware of his history, finally looked at him and said "Oh, shut up you pansy. I'm going to pop those little bullets out like over ripe zits!" Didn't even use a local. It was a thing of beauty......
She finally pressed charges and divorced his sorry butt. He did a little jail time and we invited her to come shooting with us. If she could do that her first three shots with that little toy she had the makings of a good marks woman. She never shot again while I knew her!
Across the room she shot a beautiful little three shot group, each one hit him in the sternum, center of chest. Each one broke the skin and stopped on the sternum, didn't even crack it.
He was screaming like some one was trying to amputate a limb with a rusty hack saw. The doctor, who was aware of his history, finally looked at him and said "Oh, shut up you pansy. I'm going to pop those little bullets out like over ripe zits!" Didn't even use a local. It was a thing of beauty......
She finally pressed charges and divorced his sorry butt. He did a little jail time and we invited her to come shooting with us. If she could do that her first three shots with that little toy she had the makings of a good marks woman. She never shot again while I knew her!
As far as the .25 ACP goes, I have worked several ATTEMPTED suicides with them. I'm sure they have killed lots of people, but I've only seen them get stuck in the roof of the mouth.
During my Department's transition from the Sig P220 .45 ACP to P226 .357 Sig, two Troopers had to shoot a truck driver while he was seated in his truck tractor. The .45 penetrated the door, hit the driver in the side and fell into his coat pocket. No penetration of the driver. The .357 Sig penetrated the door, the coat and the truck driver.
I've also seen incidents where .45 ACP wouldn't penetrate the sheet metal in a Ford pick-up bed. All of the 45 ammo I am speaking of was black talon.
Like mentioned above, nothing works 100% of the time. I wouldn't want to be shot with ANY of them, including the pellet gun!
During my Department's transition from the Sig P220 .45 ACP to P226 .357 Sig, two Troopers had to shoot a truck driver while he was seated in his truck tractor. The .45 penetrated the door, hit the driver in the side and fell into his coat pocket. No penetration of the driver. The .357 Sig penetrated the door, the coat and the truck driver.
I've also seen incidents where .45 ACP wouldn't penetrate the sheet metal in a Ford pick-up bed. All of the 45 ammo I am speaking of was black talon.
Like mentioned above, nothing works 100% of the time. I wouldn't want to be shot with ANY of them, including the pellet gun!
Our range has an ordinary binder clip with a .380 fmj stuck on it. Fired at 5 yards, I don't the actual gun used. The round hit the wire handle and is stuck on that wire. We use those clips to hold targets and several get a week, 9mm's and up tear right through the wire.
I could see a heavy *********** or pull doing the same thing.
I could see a heavy *********** or pull doing the same thing.
There was a story several months ago in the news here about some guy who tried to kill his ex-girlfriend. He shot here 5 five times point blank with a 38 special. None of the rounds penertrated her skull. She lived and was able to testify against him.
I guess its safe to say that the larger the round the better the chances but nothing is guaranteed.
I guess its safe to say that the larger the round the better the chances but nothing is guaranteed.
more results
http://stevespages.com/page8f25acp.html
from the looks of it, it's not a stopper at all. It's a stalling weapon to buy you time...just unload into your assailant and run away to either get help or a bigger gun.
low mass wont have the momentum to penetrate hard material like a skull, but it'll make whoever's skull REALLY painful. I have no doubt it'll penetrate flesh deeply in it's FMJ form, but really not a good shoot to kill round.
http://stevespages.com/page8f25acp.html
from the looks of it, it's not a stopper at all. It's a stalling weapon to buy you time...just unload into your assailant and run away to either get help or a bigger gun.
low mass wont have the momentum to penetrate hard material like a skull, but it'll make whoever's skull REALLY painful. I have no doubt it'll penetrate flesh deeply in it's FMJ form, but really not a good shoot to kill round.
from my Chicago days......
A pair of street punks accosted an in-uniform Air Force Major, and one shot him at arm's length with a 25.
Bullet struck a button, and the Major remained standing, looking at said punks.
They scooted (no, never caught), yelling they'd shot Superman, according to witnesses.
Since my 'always' employs the lowly 22LR, I consider it a contact weapon only, and have carefully considered if-ever-needed shot placement.
A pair of street punks accosted an in-uniform Air Force Major, and one shot him at arm's length with a 25.
Bullet struck a button, and the Major remained standing, looking at said punks.
They scooted (no, never caught), yelling they'd shot Superman, according to witnesses.
Since my 'always' employs the lowly 22LR, I consider it a contact weapon only, and have carefully considered if-ever-needed shot placement.
While working in the ER I saw a patient having a huge mosquito bite in the center of his forehead.
Gentle pressure on the edges of the bump opened the wound enough to see the glint of a bullet base. The .25 ball embedded in the skull but did not penetrate.
I think the problem is that the case/capacity is so small its easy to get under charges of powder. Pull the bulets on a box of fifty, pour out the powder, and note the variations. In my test I had two out of a box of fifty with primer only, no powder. I was checkin the left over ammo from the .25 Beretta I sold after seeing the patient mentioned above.
Another factor might be barrel dimensions and quality. I wonder if there is significant blow by and loss of pressure in cheap Ravens and such.
Just thinking out loud.
Had one, learned better. Wouldn't have one now.
Gentle pressure on the edges of the bump opened the wound enough to see the glint of a bullet base. The .25 ball embedded in the skull but did not penetrate.
I think the problem is that the case/capacity is so small its easy to get under charges of powder. Pull the bulets on a box of fifty, pour out the powder, and note the variations. In my test I had two out of a box of fifty with primer only, no powder. I was checkin the left over ammo from the .25 Beretta I sold after seeing the patient mentioned above.
Another factor might be barrel dimensions and quality. I wonder if there is significant blow by and loss of pressure in cheap Ravens and such.
Just thinking out loud.
Had one, learned better. Wouldn't have one now.
I heard the travel around the skull myth in the Corps while they were transitioning to the M-9. That was about the 9mm. Ive heard the heavy coat stories also. Deflection can play a large part in these lucky to be alive scenarios. I will say the .25 is a weak cartridge compared to all else, that being said I really wouldnt want to get hit by one to prove or disprove the theory. Zippo lighters, badges, dogtags, etc have stopped rounds but I think theyre the exceptions and not the rules.
I wouldnt carry anything less than a 9mm so its a moot point for me.
I wouldnt carry anything less than a 9mm so its a moot point for me.
'I have seen a crime scene where a .45 was used. The perp shot through the window at point blank range (it was on a balcony at an apartment) and the metal blinds gave enough to stop the rounds between them and the window. Not all the rounds were stoped, I think their was a total of 5-6, but it did stop 2 of them.'
No way. An aluminum or plastic Venetian blind probably couldn't stop a .45 at half a mile. Possibly the window/door was made of thick Lexan?
No way. An aluminum or plastic Venetian blind probably couldn't stop a .45 at half a mile. Possibly the window/door was made of thick Lexan?
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