[nenoshi]

thanks very much guys...best regards

 

[dekg4f]

Picture of my "National Match" built on a Caspian SS frame. Slide is marked "NM7791435" on the left side. Note the "slanted" serrations as on the Gold Cup. It is my understanding, those parts marked "TZ" were manufactured by the Isreali, IMI? These slides were called "hard slides", this slide also has Rockwell test marks, and I understand made for the military marksmanship units during the late 60's & 70's. This pistol has a Kart NM barrel and is a "one-holer" at 25 yards.

 

[ChefBob]

In case you're interested.....

There's one of the "779" slides up for bid on ebay right now.
Run a search on Item # 1812610971. IIRC it's at around $26.00
Let's see who ends up with it.
ChefBob

 

[Ben Reyes]

.

 

[SamColtFan]

Re: Sam, NM slides should have that prefix.

Well, I'm going to answer my own question having done some more research. The 7790314 slides are specially hardened slides made for Army National Match pistols. Colt initially made Colt marked slides, then they produced slides for these pistols simply with 7790314 on the left side of the slide.

So Ken, if you're wondering why your 779 pistol is such a good shooter, this could be the answer.

Sam, National Match slides are marked NM7791435 on the left side. Produced by Colt from 1963 to 1968, with the exception of 1964 when the manufacturer of National Match slides was Drake. The manufacturer name is roll marked on the right side and the slide serration is slanted ala Gold Cup. National Match barrels would have NM prefix also. Listed below are the drawing numbers and the years they were used:

1955-1958 NM7267717
1959-1960 NM7790429
1961-1962 NM7790313
1963-1968 NM7791414

Slides with drawing number 7790314 are regular replacement slides. They are not the slides used by Springfield Armory for the National Match pistols intended for use by competitors in the annual National Matches at Camp Perry.



Ben, here's what I found regarding National Match Pistols:

"History of the National Match Pistol"

"In 1954, the Army began to experiment with Match grade pistols. As they learned what improved accuracy and what the shooters preferred, changes were made. Some of the early Army National Match Pistols had variations such as plastic triggers or rubber front strap covers. Large fixed rear sights were standard with micro adjustable sights as an option by 1959. Hard slides were made for these pistols. The early slides were made by Colt with normal Colt markings. Colts second Match slide was unmarked on the left side except for part number 7790314. The third type slide had serrations like the Gold Cup and the part number was 7791435. This slide was made by the Drake manufacturing Co. These pistols were periodically returned to the armory and updated."

Source: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm

This info says the 7790314 was a hard slide made for the Army Match Pistols. The five Rockwell test dots on my slide would indicate that it is a Hard Slide.

Regards,
Sam

 

[Ben Reyes]

.

 

[SamColtFan]

So what does the quote from the Sight mean when it says that these were hard slides for Army National Match pistols? Is this fellows information incorrect? Is he saying it's a match grade slide but not a National Match slide?

Regards,
Sam

 

[Ben Reyes]

.

 

[SamColtFan]

Ben....

Thanks for the heads up about that particular website. Sorry to have passed his info along.

Regards,
Sam

 

[kxk]

Ben's comment that the information on the website:
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/nm.htm
is incorrect is perhaps the understatement of the year. The article is so full of mistakes and misleading generalizations that it should bear the warning label: "For Entertainment Purposes Only." Once again we see proof that "Anything is easy when you don't know what you are talking about". Best Karl

 

[kwill]

The bad news about that website is that it has errors. The good news is that the webmaster is willing to correct the mistakes if you point them out. He is not a collector, per se, especially of GI guns. IIRC he is a shooter/competitor of more modern .45's. Much of his info comes out of early reference books (e.g. Bady) so he is repeating their errors.

 

[nenoshi]

hi again. a friend has a 779 slide which he showed me. we pored over this thread to confirm veracity. however, we didnt find the rockwell hardness test dots and the TZ.

it had the 7790314 on the left side and strangely, a 55397 on the right side (just a little below the ejection port).

could this slide be a part of the second run of 779 slides samcoltfan earlier mentioned?

your insights and advice will be most appreciated. TIA.

 

[Gary Smith]

Ok, here's my 2 cents on the subject.
The government contracted other vendors besides Colt to make these slides, one being Ralph Esterbrook in Derby Vermont, if my memory serves me well. Rumor has it he was making them on subcontract for a New York firm in the early 80s..
These slides were machined on soft forgings and were heat treated by wiring 2 parts together to minimize warping. The rockwell on these slides were actually too hard, I believe somewhere around RC 50.

There's more.. I just looked up the Rock Island Arsenal blueprint of March 1960 that we use as a standard. The assigned part No. is 7790314.


EDIT
I guess this is old news. I know the Esterbrook slides were NM and did carry a #, but it probably wasn't the 779#

 

[Stumpy]

779's

From Eng. Drawings.-Springfield 11Mar60,barrel 7790313 mrkd.on top chamber 45 Auto NM 7790313,with ser#under this/Bushing 7267718,ser# on rt.side.---Rear sigt 15Nov56,7268317(new design work use 7791203 or 771464.---RIA 23 Oct 56,Ft.sight 728316-Link 6Apr61, 7790893---Trigger 11Nov60,Long 7791047 w/adjtg screw 7791069--Short 7791068 w/screw 7791070---
RIA 11mar60, Slide(bare) 7790314--as an assembly using new r.sight 5013196 & f.sight 5013197 the slide# becomes 779353.(also,this slide has a flat milled on it for the front sight).

The number on right side of slide is Manufacturer's I.D.

Hardening for slide 7790314--1540 to 1580 deg.F-oil quench-austenite grain size #5 or finer--spec. QQ-5-624.
Safety /Slide stop/Disassembly notches and dust cover hardened to Rockwell 40 to 46.

I may not be right,but it looks like these are Nat.Match updates up to the year of 1961.

 

[Ty]

Link to page with SA NM part configurations

I have a whole section on my site about the SA NM guns and thier configurations by year.

http://www.coolgunsite.com/collectors_guide.htm#National Match Pistols (Springfield Armory 1955-1965)

CHeers
Ty

 

[ranger]

STUMPY, can you provide more infor for:

"The number on right side of slide is Manufacturer's I.D."

This is another area of seemingly endless speculation/confusion.

 

[Stumpy]

Slide Manuf. I.D.

Engineering drawing only shows location measurement spec's,does not identify any manufacturers.

Does anyone know anything about a site called

www.rayvigator.com ?

I got on this site the other day and by chance scrolled down to a site called NARA. this is some kind of Nat. Archives site, I brought up a whole bunch of lists of letters and corespondence between the Springfield Armory (internal) and to contractors about all kinds of stuff. It's such a big list that I haven't had time to get back into it and try reading any of the letters,etc; I have an old slow computer. You might really want to look into this site just to see what you can find. Just might get a surprise.

Stumpy

 

[John Holbrook]

Heres somemore info on CAGE codes for contract slides.

00-876-4033 SLIDE,AUTOMATIC PISTOL

PROCUREMENT - Procurement History
Contract # CLIN CAGE Source Date Unit Price Quantity Total Price
DAAA0993C0406 0001AB 3W544 AMCCOM May 27, 1993 $0.0000 0 $0.00
DAAA0993C0406 0001AB 3W544 AMCCOM May 27, 1993 $93.5000 2107 $197,004.50
DAAA0990C0597 0001AB 32067 AMCCOM May 1, 1990 $97.6679 7794 $761,223.61
DAAA0990C0597 0001AB 32067 AMCCOM May 1, 1990 $97.7000 7794 $761,473.80
DAAA0985C0407 0001AB 6K223 AMCCOM Feb 1, 1985 $53.8031 14300 $769,384.33
DAAA0984C0695 0001AB S3140 CCOM Jun 1, 1984 $58.9100 18500 $1,089,835.00
DAAA0984C0210 0001AB 16447 AMCCOM May 1, 1984 $62.0031 453 $28,087.40
DAAA0984C0210 0001AC 16447 AMCCOM May 1, 1984 $59.7402 7973 $476,308.61
DAAA0984C0210 0001AD 16447 AMCCOM May 1, 1984 $59.7403 6268 $374,452.20
DAAA0984C0210 0001AE 16447 AMCCOM May 1, 1984 $59.7401 2053 $122,646.43
DAAA0984C0185 0001AB 2U894 AMCCOM Jan 1, 1984 $79.0393 18107 $1,431,164.61
DAAA0984C0185 0001AB 2U894 AMCCOM Jan 1, 1984 $79.1600 18107 $1,433,350.12
DAAA0981C4312 0001AB 53397 CCOM Jan 1, 1981 $68.6456 26036 $1,787,256.84
DAAA0981C4312 0001AC 53397 CCOM Jan 1, 1981 $67.1747 2421 $162,629.95

PROCUREMENT - Related CAGE Information
CAGE Status Company Name City and State
3W544 A LEWIS MACHINE AND TOOL CO MILAN, IL 61264
32067 A MARVIN ENGINEERING CO INC INGLEWOOD, CA 90302-2903
6K223 Y L A R MFG INC WEST JORDAN, UT 84084-4997
S3140 A ISRAELI MILITARY INDUSTRIES TEL AVIV NONE
16447 P MILO COMPONENTS INC FREEPORT, NY 11520-4612
2U894 A DSE INC VENICE, FL 34292
53397 A NUMAX ELECTRONICS INC NEW YORK, NY 10118-0110

Here is a .45 I built with an Olympic Arms frame and a contract slide from Numax Electronics..

[

 

[Stumpy]

N.M.

Anyone looking for a N.M. ? Check this one out.

www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=6026540


Stumpy

 

[db4]

Ken-maybe it's a Texas thing- I have a NM/Essex hybrid that i bought out of TX a few years ago, also extremely accurate if not real pretty (it's been dubbed the Frankenmatch).

The slide is marked NM7791435, has the angled serrations like the Drake, a Kensight adjustable rear, and the right side is marked MFR 5T083.

Any ideas about who made it?