I recently converted an aluminum frame VIP to 10mm. While I had no functional issues, it was a handful to shoot, and was subsequently traded. If you want a 10mm in a small gun it is certainly up to the task. If you are.

 

I think either combo is a fine idea... I might lean slightly towards the .40/10, and maybe add .357 Sig someday... as long as good mags are available.

At around the 4" barrel length, I think Barsto and STI/Dawson are probably the only decent options for a sub-caliber ramped bull barrel. Most others will want to sell you a 4.25" Commander barrel.

 

Which caliber?

As another post stated, in a light weight gun, a 10mm is a handful to shoot.

I personally would go with the 9mm with an optional .38super barrel. The .38 super caliber is easy to find ammo, and some of the Corbon and Blackhills ammo is very effective. However, if you reload, the 9X23 barrel is a good choice, since I am not sure how easy it is to find 9X23 ammo. A 9X23 or even a .38 super barrel with a single port comp would be a great option.

The 9mm is probably one of the most inexpensive rounds to purchase, so it would be a cost saver if you shoot a lot. It is also a very comfortable round to shoot in a light gun. If you reload, bullets and brass are readily available.

I would not like to have to reload for .40 and 10mm, since the .40 uses small pistol primers and the 10mm uses large primers....just another thing to have to change around to make ammo....!

 

Here is another option/opinion.

If you get a 9X23 barrel, and if you reload, you can use rimless 38 Super brass (38 Super Comp, 38 TJ). This brass is easier to find than the 9X23 brass, especially the original Winchester 9X23.

Some 9X23 chambers will also accept the standard semi-rimmed 38 Super ammo. My Nowlin 9X23 barrel does. This gives you an additional ammo option.

Since your gun has a fully supported chamber, you can load all varieties of the 38 Super brass (semi-rimmed and rimless) to the same power level as the 9X23.

With this arrangement, you have the option of 9X23 ammo, and rimless 38 Super ammo in the same barrel (and possibly semi-rimmed 38 Super).

The additional advantage of the rimless 38 Super brass is that it feeds smoother and is less prone to nosedive than the semi-rimmed 38 Super cases and the tapered 9X23 - if the STI magazine allows nosedive. This is certainly true in single column magazines, but double column magazines can reduce nosedive if properly designed.

 

thanks

I appreciate all the input so far, thank-you all.

I was hoping someone would offer their thoughts on the terminal balistics of the two proposed calibers, at self defense distances, from sub 4 inch barrels...

I do hand-load, to keep cost down and self defense ammo is relatively available commercially for both 10mm and 9x23 for carry, so...

Is anyone willing to offer experience that says one or the other is functionally superior in the shorter action of a 2011 with a 3.9" barrel. Or that one or the other is superior caliber for self defense from a short barrel. 9x23 does offer a magazine capacity advantage, and it would give me an excuse to tool-up to load for an additional caliber if nothing else... LOL

 

Both the 9x23 Win & 10mm Auto will give up roughly 75fps going from a 5" to a 4" barrel, so I would extrapolate that to roughly 100 to 110 fps if you go to a 3.5" barrel. The standard 9x23 load is a 125g bullet at 1400fps from a 5" barrel, yielding approximately 1300fps from a 3.5" barrel. For the 10mm lets use a 180g bullet at 1200fps from a 5" barrel stepping down to 1100fps in a 3.5" barrel. From a terminal ballistics standpoint that is still going to give you substantially above 9mm ballistics (from a 4"+ barrel) from the 9x23 Win out of a 3.5" tube. Comparatively the 10mm out of the shorter barrel will yield a similar comparison to the .40 S&W with the 3.5" 10mm still surpassing the .40 out of a "service length" barrel. Of course it is more complicated than just velocity: sectional density, penetration, etc but you will lose similar velocity from both rounds and both rounds will still beat their smaller counterparts even with the abbreviated barrels.

I myself love the 10mm & the 9x23 Winchester, have multiple 10mm handguns and will have multiple 9x23 Win guns before I am done (just one ATM). I will say that anyone that feels 10mm is an "uncommon" caliber has never shopped for 9x23 Winchester. I reload for all the calibers I shoot so to me that is a moot point but may factor into your decision. The obvious answer is to build one of each but that doesn't answer your question.

Function of each in the 1911 or in this case the 2011 platform generally requires a little more care in the building as they are non-standard calibers for the platform. Due to heavier bullet mass the 10mm will have more recoil than the 9x23 which to me is irrelevant in the shooting of the guns but needs to be factored in to the building of said guns. Being that you are using the 2011 platform I will assume you are using ramped barrels? Not a must IMO but I know a lot of the 2011 pistols come with the ramp cut done. Both the 10mm & 9x23 cases are strong enough that I don't feel ramped barrels are a necessity but I have also not done any 2011 builds with an unramped barrel (for no reason other than the 2011 frames I have utilized were all pre-cut for ramped barrels).

With both rounds being smaller in diameter than the .45 ACP they are presented higher in the magazine so feeding becomes more of a straight line affair, with some 9x23 magazines presenting the round so it almost feeds directly into the chamber. Magazine capacity is also greater with the 9x23 by a fair amount.

As I said before I love both rounds and promote them whenever I can but I've never had to pit them against one another. Some of it comes down to your philosophy on terminal ballistics insofar as are you a light & fast or heavy & slow guy? Of course the 10mm isn't really "slow" but in this case it is slower than the comparison round. Power of the rounds, the slide velocity and their recoil will make the 10mm a little more sensitive to the building and adjusting of the timing & recoil system versus the 9x23.

So on paper I guess I've made the argument for the 9x23 (although inadvertently) but again my true answer would be build them both It is certainly up to you, but if you build a 10mm personally I would abandon the .40S&W switch barrel idea as the shorter rounds will more than likely require special tuned magazines and with the 10mm you can load light to replicate the 40 short & wimpy. In 9x23 Win I would still consider the 9mm barrel just because the price & availability of 9x23 brass versus standard 9x19mm.

 

The obvious answer is to build one of each

Thank-you for typing all that. Many bits I didn't know. Very informative.

It seems as if I may have to consider the 9x23 more thoroughly, initially I was leaning towards the 10mm. Mostly due to inexperience with the 9x23. The balistics of 9x23 caught my eye, that's why I asked.

On a side note: we are very near each other (unless I am thinking of the wrong Delta PA). I live between Quakertown and Lansdale (Kulpsville off the PA tp).

Thanks again, to all who have contributed. I am still open to more opinions/knowledge.

 

I just converted a friend's 3" STI 9mm Elektra (yes, the black one) to 9x23.
Changed the grips to Alumagrip slims, and put those Pearce wraparound fingergrooves underneath, for functionality... not looks.
Converted the recoil system to use Colt's Defender plug and heavier springs from Wolff (21lb set-up in it currently).
Got some Metalform compact .38 Super mags for it.

Gun is very shootable, recoil is obviously increased but still manageable, and can be fired quickly and accurately at 'defense pistol distances'.
This is with both of Winchester's factory loads.

 

I can tell you that when I called the Springfield Custom Shop asking for a 4" 1911 chambered in 357 SIG, Dave Williams convinced me to get 9x23 Winchester instead. I stopped regretting the choice when I finally had 1,000 Winchester cases plus plenty of Starline 38 SuperComp for practice rounds. Dave's explanation started with "it simply functions better in a 1911."

Here are a couple of links for you:
http://www.38super.net/Pages/comparisons.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/40sw.html

They don't have 9x23 data but the 9mm Luger velocity loss should be somewhat comparable:

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

I can tell you that Winchester White Box 9x23 ambles along at over 1,400 fps out of a 4" barrel. The brass is hard to find Winchester Silver Tips move over 1,300 fps. My target rounds go about 1,200 fps.

Whether you prefer more 9x23 rounds or more energy (and recoil) with the 10mm is up to you.