That's good news. Glad to hear it.

 

Excellent finish.

That is a lot of money for a refinish.

 

I agree it's excellent and I have it on a 1911.

But that does seem expensive.

 

Thats to much $ IMO Considering it comes standard on a NH or Guncrafter as the base finish..

 

Some NH guns are just spray n bake Cerakoted, plus they cost way more to start with than most Browns.

A proper QPQ nitride is a lot more involved than most finishes. It's not that common in general for a reason. They probably don't care that most will opt for Gen4 instead.

 

As another cost example, one of the top gunsmiths in the country took my Executive Elite Ed Brown, took off the Gen 3 coating, put on a 600 grit polish, which is hard work, and had the gun Ion Bonded for $600. Much of this cost was for the 600 grit polish. I recognize that refinishing is not simple. This gunsmith also reserved the right to charge more time if he ran into trouble with the high polish and refinish, which he said sometimes happened.

I don't think that the refinish price should apply to stainless finished models.

With regard to new guns, aren't there some polymer guns out that have Melonite type products as standard at much lower prices for the gun?

But all this is such a new development, maybe I don't know all the details of the charges?

 

Top end finishes cost a lot. Robar NP3+ is over $400, regular NP3 is like $330 I think. For a new gun what they're charging isn't out of line.

 

Does Robar do new guns for any manufacturer? Wouldn't most of their work be refinish? All I have ever seen, which does not mean much as I have seen very little of their work, is refinish work from Robar. Do they have a cost listed on their web site?

Gen 4 coating is a 0 cost upcharge on a new Brown. Black Nitride is $350. Say Brown has built in an estimated $200 with profit on the total sales price for the initial Gen 4 that you are not getting if you buy the Black Nitrate upgrade. You are up to $550 for a new finish?

If I wanted the Black Nitrate on a new gun, I would let a high volume Brown dealer negotiate for me, or just get stainless, which is an easy care, very good alternative. Brown does a great job with this alternative.

What am I missing?

On the other hand, an Ed Brown even with the cost of Black Nitride is still a good deal in the semi custom world.

 

I probably was being way too critical.

The cost of the Brown is still very competitive and the black nitride finish is outstanding.

 

My unscientific impression is that most gun makers don't want to bother with black nitride/QPQ type finishes because they just aren't worth the trouble on their end (expense/labor/etc.), and there aren't enough customers that know enough about finishes to care. I think Severns Custom got out of the business of doing that kind of finish, and they used to charge like $425 to refinish in their "Hard Hat" version of the process.

 

How much better (more durable) is the Nitride than the Gen4?

 

No comparison, the nitride is bulletproof compared to Gen 4 or any other spray coating.

 

Yeah it's not close, none of the spray on polymer finishes (Gen4, ArmorTuff, Teflon S, Black-T, Cerakote...) are durable compared to anything except bluing.

 

Severns still does it.

 

Nitride is the toughest finish I have ever come across in my 30 years of shooting and carrying guns. It simply does not wear. My daily carry is a Dan Wesson with Duty Finish (Black Nitride), it shows zero holster wear. Guys have been carrying it a lot longer than me and after years, still no holster wear. Best finish period. Worth even penny.

 

+1911. One of my 1911s, a year 2009 S&W Performance Center version, has this finish... Still looks like new.

This is not the easiest finish to apply, and it can also microscopically alter surface dimensions. But when purchased as part of the gun's original specs, from a top tier builder such as EB, I don't think there's any concern about possible effects on surface dimensions -- EB will get it right.

 

Probably worth the extra money if you want the coating to stay. My SF in black Gen 4 is starting to pop off on some of the small parts like the slide stop and bushing. Never been in a holster. Thinking about sending it back and paying them to remove the Gen 4 and bead blast it.

 

I enjoy seeing the wear. To me wear whether it be on a stainless, blued, coated, or nitride, displays normal use and that is the reason I buy these in the first place. Damage, from dropping, idiot marks, etc is a different situation.

 

Don't worry. Nitride wears just fine. The tales of it's durability are greatly exaggerated.

 

Everyone wants a "perfect" finish but they all have trade-offs.

In a lot of cases the finish itself won't corrode, but it is partially porous on a microscopic level, and thus doesn't always provide the perfect corrosion protection to the base metal that people assume it will. Hard chrome has microscopic cracks and IonBond DLC is porous to an extent too. Nitriding improves corrosion resistance but isn't immune to rusting either. These are all repurposed industrial coatings, and the original manufacturers tend to be very open about their limitations as well as benefits. You can find lots of candid engineering Q&A's about these as they pertain to industrial use so it's not a big mystery if you're willing to dig around.

DLC can flake off if applied improperly. Nitriding can slightly affect dimensions and even the heat treat of your steel if done wrong. Hard chrome can rarely cause nitrogen embrittlement and will definitely affect fine tolerances. These are all edge cases but do happen.

Polymer finishes provide some of the best rust protection possible... until they rub off... which they do promptly. People need to see these as "better than bluing for cheap" rather than the "wonder finishes" they're marketed as.

And the stainless steel used for guns is... not very stainless... because it's used for making guns. Basically the trade-offs to make it strong and easy to work with involve reducing the corrosion resistance. Another case of no free ride. There might be some aerospace superalloy out there that could be used instead, but nobody is paying $20,000 for a 1911 just to get it to rust 20% more slowly in the salt spray test.

NP3 is a great all-around finish but it's not black and it's not cheap. I like it anyway.

Finally, nitride is hardly indestructible, there are plenty of Tennifer Glocks and Nitron SigSauers out there with holster wear. Wear is not a matter of "if" but "how fast."

 

has anyone had ED Brown do the Black Nitride? DO they do it in-house or sub it out?

 

I had one done last year and I believe it's done in-house. However, they are no longer offering it as an option on new builds.