The Shadow 2 Orange catalog weight is too heavy for ESP (iron sights) or CO (red dot).
It probably would not be noticed in a Tier 1 match, club shoots seldom do equipment checks, might not be checked in a Tier II, but a Tier III like a state championship will definitely have equipment checks. So do you want to try to get away with shooting a non compliant gun?


From

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-Equipment-Division-Appendix-Master.pdf.pdf

A.2 Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP)

A.2.1 Handguns permitted for use in ESP must:

A.2.1.1 Be semi-automatic. A.2.1.2 Use 9 mm (9x19) or larger cartridges. A.2.1.3 The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 43.00 oz. or less. A.2.1.4 The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 3⁄4” x 6” x 1 5/8”.

A.7 Carry Optics Division

A.7.1 Handguns permitted:

A.7.1.1 Handguns, associated modifications, restrictions, holsters, magazine carriers, calibers, start condition, and division capacity shall be compliant with ESP Division requirements, except as it relates to sights, lasers and overall weight. A.7.1.2 Maximum weight including empty magazine will not exceed 45 ounces. A.7.1.3 Firearms used in this division must be equipped with an optical sight system in order to compete this division.

Product NameCZ Shadow 2 Orange
SKU91249
MSRP$2,249.00
Chambering9mm Luger
Magazine Capacity17+1
FrameSteel
Trigger MechSA/DA
SightsFiber Optic front, HAJO rear
BarrelCold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length4.89 in
Weight 46.5 oz
Overall Length8.53 in

 

The Shadow 2 Orange catalog weight is too heavy for ESP (iron sights) or CO (red dot).
It probably would not be noticed in a Tier 1 match, club shoots seldom do equipment checks, might not be checked in a Tier II, but a Tier III like a state championship will definitely have equipment checks. So do you want to try to get away with shooting a non compliant gun?


From

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/2022-Equipment-Division-Appendix-Master.pdf.pdf

A.2 Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP)

A.2.1 Handguns permitted for use in ESP must:

A.2.1.1 Be semi-automatic. A.2.1.2 Use 9 mm (9x19) or larger cartridges. A.2.1.3 The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 43.00 oz. or less. A.2.1.4 The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 8 3⁄4” x 6” x 1 5/8”.

A.7 Carry Optics Division

A.7.1 Handguns permitted:

A.7.1.1 Handguns, associated modifications, restrictions, holsters, magazine carriers, calibers, start condition, and division capacity shall be compliant with ESP Division requirements, except as it relates to sights, lasers and overall weight. A.7.1.2 Maximum weight including empty magazine will not exceed 45 ounces. A.7.1.3 Firearms used in this division must be equipped with an optical sight system in order to compete this division.

Product NameCZ Shadow 2 Orange
SKU91249
MSRP$2,249.00
Chambering9mm Luger
Magazine Capacity17+1
FrameSteel
Trigger MechSA/DA
SightsFiber Optic front, HAJO rear
BarrelCold Hammer Forged
Barrel Length4.89 in
Weight 46.5 oz
Overall Length8.53 in

Thanks for the quick response! so basically an ounce and a half too heavy.

 

Well, with dot installed it is going to weigh more than 46.5 oz, so more than 1.5 over; 3.5 oz over on the bare gun.

There is a discussion on cutting down a 2018 model to make weight, I don't know if it applies to the current guns.

How to get a CZ Shadow 2 to make weight in IDPA?

Would love to hear experiences of how shooters got their CZ Shadow 2 to make weight for IDPA.

forums.brianenos.com

 

That thread mentions a "not for competition" division. Are you familiar with that?

 

Any help and clarification would be great! Thank you!

Your gun may be ok, see below.

So do you want to try to get away with shooting a non compliant gun?

You looked up a wrong gun. His is OR which stands for Optic Ready. It is not Orange that has a bushing and does not have metal removed for optic plates.

To the OP: people have been able to sneak their Shadows into IDPA CO under 45 oz. The tricks utilized include use of polymer guide rod, lightweight grips, lightweight magazine basepads and, obviously, which optic you choose matters too.
My directly milled Shadow 2 is 44.75 with SRO, large thumb safety, and metal guide rod - but I had about one ounce cut out from the inside of a dust cover.

 

Your gun may be ok, see below.



You looked up a wrong gun. His is OR which stands for Optic Ready. It is not Orange that has a bushing and does not have metal removed for optic plates.

To the OP: people have been able to sneak their Shadows into IDPA CO under 45 oz. The tricks utilized include use of polymer guide rod, lightweight grips, lightweight magazine basepads and, obviously, which optic you choose matters too.
My directly milled Shadow 2 is 44.75 with SRO, large thumb safety, and metal guide rod - but I had about one ounce cut out from the inside of a dust cover.

So, it sounds like it could be ok to fall under the Carry optic category with some modifications. And then hopefully a USPSA category as well, probably Carry Optics also?

 

It is 100% legal for USPSA carry optics and you could do some additional mods if you'd like. You will have to shoot it DA on your first shot so learn how to manually decock it. You will need extended basepads, USPSA allows 140 mm mags.
For IDPA you need to squeak it under 45 oz and you can only have 10 rounds in your mags. You could shoot it DA on first shot like in USPSA, or run cocked and locked. If you did the former, you can run with thin thumb safety that also cuts down on weight.

 

With the DA on the first shot and needing to be decocked. If you have to change mags mid run, does the next first shot also have to be decocked? Or does that not happen often because you reload while a round is chambered.

 

People were looking at that before optic ready Shadows became available and we had to mill regular slides. Going through CZ Custom gave a benefit of a lot of weight reduction because they took out a big chunk of steel from the slide and used aluminum optic plates. Between that and removing iron sights, steel guide rods and thumb safeties the 45 oz was achievable. People also took the shrouds off their DPPs.

 

You could save weight by cutting off the bayonet lug, uh "accessory rail" and contouring the dust cover like a regular 75. Cajun shows slides with a lot of flutes, toots, and maybe even Buick Cruiserline Ventiports.

 

I have never shot ESP, or IDPA CO for that matter. Are externally visible mods kosher? For some reason I thought they weren't in IDPA.

 

Under 2022 IDPA rules, there is very little you can't do to an ESP or, by extension, CO so long as it makes weight and fits The Box. CDP, too.
No compensators or holey barrels of course, but my USPSA Limited gun is fine for ESP... as long as I don't slip up and load too many rounds.

 

So it is really just a matter of little machining to get one IDPA legal. I dunno which sport is a bigger joke anymore. I will continue shooting USPSA just because of the talent pool.

 

WOW...
I just read that I'm not allowed to shoot my Tanfoglio Witness in .38 Super and have my hits scored as "Major", despite the round's ready capability of making the cut! To "make major" one must shoot a .40 caliber or larger auto pistol, unless, of course, said pistol is chambered for the moribund .357 SiG. Interesting that one caliber is considered suitable and the other is not, when the salient differences between the two appear to be case head diameter and magazine capacity.
POLITICS perhaps? One wonders...
I'd be MOST interested to hear a plausible (not EVEN hoping for "valid") explanation for THIS move.

 

Lookiing into the why re .357 Sig in USPSA Limited. First answer, was because IPSC added it to Standard Division with provisions. The exception ran out on 12/31/2020 but the rulebook has not be updated. Sent IROA an email today asking about the status of .357 Sig since the exception is nearly two years expired and the rulebook unchanged. If USPSA isn't good about rules, IPSC is worse....IMO

 

The more insane part of it is that 38S counts as major in Open. But not in Limited.
No, not politics. Historical factors and lack of good leadership.

 

Interesting. When I started shooting USPSA everyone shot a 1911 45 and then added a single port comp. That was the rage and max was higher than it is now. I quit shooting when the expensive race guns started coming in ( 38 super being the caliber to have). Later I started shooting IDPA type matches. I understand that the guns allowed in IDPA are supposed to be closer to edc type pistols. Ask yourself would you really carry something that heavy daily? I know once a stop watch is entered into the contest it becomes a game. But I am on the side of let's keep it realistic as possible.

 

IDPA's compact carry pistol division is capped at a mere 38 oz. Unloaded. That's heavier than last two full sized US Army service handguns are/were, and almost is heavy as a full sized 1911. Compact carry, lol.

 

Try GSSF. Lots of Divisions, but everything except Unlimited is subject to tech inspection and if your gun is not Glock, all Glock, and nothing but Glock, you are out.

 

I don't know what the present usage of .40 Limited Major is, but if they wanted to change, they could.

I was there when USPSA reduced Major power factor from 175 to 165 so you could shoot 9mm Open Major.
I don't know what the present usage of .38 Super Open Major is, either, but I doubt it is much.

IPSC got more complicated, Open Major is clear down to 160 while Standard (Limited) and Classic (Single Stack) are at 170.

 

It's like 50/50 overall, but 100% .40 at the top of the sport

 

.40 is not 100% top of the sport anymore....

Nils just won the Limited Nationals shooting a $600 plastic gun (Canik Rival) in 9mm. The next 34 places were shooting Major, but the winner was shooting Minor. Which I find hilarious and awesome. I imagine the guys at Masterpiece Arms are kinda pissed, as they sponsored the match and they sell $3500 2011 race guns specifically for Limited. Beaten by a $600 plastic gun. Ouch! LOL!

 

WOW...
THIS is going to be interesting.

 

Pretending major/minor scoring works and propping up this illusion that it matters or adds some depth of choice within a division is one of the things hurting USPSA.

 

Well what you are saying is every division would become 9mm minor. Smallest caliber and smallest 9mm cartridge allowed which equals max number in magazine for division w/o capacity limits and least recoil. And, point value between major and minor gone there is no benefit for shooting a larger caliber.

 

Who is saying that?

 

Right
JPSO - Jim's Practical Shooting Organization
Kind of like USPSA but no comps, no Big Sticks, unitary power factor 140.

 

I'm new, so I'll admit to knowing basically NOTHING about the intricacies of all things USPSA. But if the .40 S&W caliber platforms have higher mag capacities than the (my) .38 Supers, what POSSIBLE benefit is being derived from excluding .38 Super from "Major" in other classes, while the .357 SiG is included? And how does all this affect the 9x23 Winchester or the 9x25 Dillon (I guess it's rarely seen)?
It JUST seems to me that when (bullet weight (gr.) x muzzle velocity (f/s))/1000 > 165, the round should be scored as "Major", whether its bore diameter is .354" or .454".
Anyway, I'm in for a year. We'll see what develops.
Thanks all for your patience and your explanations.

 

I'm new, so I'll admit to knowing basically NOTHING about the intricacies of all things USPSA. But if the .40 S&W caliber platforms have higher mag capacities than the (my) .38 Supers, what POSSIBLE benefit is being derived from excluding .38 Super from "Major" in other classes, while the .357 SiG is included? And how does all this affect the 9x23 Winchester or the 9x25 Dillon (I guess it's rarely seen)?
It JUST seems to me that when (bullet weight (gr.) x muzzle velocity (f/s))/1000 > 165, the round should be scored as "Major", whether its bore diameter is .354" or .454".
Anyway, I'm in for a year. We'll see what develops.
Thanks all for your patience and your explanations.

40 magazines hold less than 38 Super or 9mm.

9x23 is basically a 38 Super and the 9x25 is a 357 Sig on crack as it uses a 10mm as a parent case. I havent seen the 9x25 at a match in 20 years.

 

40 and 45 being major and 9 being minor dates back to when Limited became a thing and Modified was still a thing in the mid 90s. And for a short while, Limited was called Tactical and Production version 1.0 was called Carry or something like it.

 

 

You absolutely cannot get 23 rounds in a 140mm .40 mag. I won't say 22 is impossible with some magical follower setup, but I've never seen it.
I can start 21+1 and most of the people who see me do that want to know how

If your 38 super holds 17 you're either not trying or just doing it wrong

 

If your 38 super holds 17 you're either not trying or just doing it wrong.

I certainly MUST be. I'd HOPED to shoot a mass-produced pistol chambered for a round that is SAFELY capable of major power in production-class events, which allows one 9mm caliber to be counted as major, while the round that feeds MY pistol is prohibited from major scoring.

Looks like you have it all figured out.
Good luck to you.

Far from it, Mr. Freeman, and I think you know that. What I DO believe I've figured is that USPSA rules won't always be right, but the USPSA rules will always be the rules.

So be it...

 

Most of them think wow that's hard, but when they see someone good shoot it they are impressed and see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Almost no one I see come to these matches throws a fit about stages that aren't "real life" or "practical"

 

It's a Tanfoglio Witness in .38 Super. NOT the $4200 "Domina" race gun, just the basic, iron-sighted, non-compensated, regular (aka PRACTICAL) sized pistol.