I want to try a Do it yourself Handgun Refinish project.which finish is best for this purpose.I would like some input and feed back from those who have tried both types also which is the best way to go Air brush on or brownells aerosal types if you go with an air brush type what all is needed to get good results.I have never messed with any air brush kits at all.
WillMTCII
Gun Kote
I am Leaning to the teflon/molly for my TLE II for the Lubing Properties to help withthe already close tolerances.everyone has advised me to go withthe Air brush method for best reults,everyone says the aerosal cans work great but it can be hard not to get a build up in certain areas due to the heavy coat they put down.and with an air brush you can control how much Paint goes where...?
I am Leaning to the teflon/molly for my TLE II for the Lubing Properties to help withthe already close tolerances.everyone has advised me to go withthe Air brush method for best reults,everyone says the aerosal cans work great but it can be hard not to get a build up in certain areas due to the heavy coat they put down.and with an air brush you can control how much Paint goes where...?
I duracoated alot of stuff over the years, and I like it. I duracoated about 12 shotguns and 6 or 7 pistols this last fall for a buddy of mine with DNR. The shotguns ride behind the seat of their trucks and get pretty banged up. They are all looking great so far with pretty rough use. It take a few tries to get the duracoat mixed correctly for the applicaion you intend. I have found that the directions are not always accurate for mixing, and it depends greatly on the environment that you apply it as to it's durability. I have some recipes that have worked for me that I will send to whoever is interested. Also neither gunkote or duracoat will do well where there is metal to metal friction, it wasn't realy designed for that ( that's from my personal observation). The teflon moly that brownell's sells is superior to both, IMO for metal to metal moving parts, I have a couple guns that I shoot regularly with the teflon finish and they look great. The black teflon they sell is super tough and also is matte finish, black goes with everything.....per my wife. sssnake
What about Moly Resin?
http://www.molyresin.com/molyresin_about.asp
Anyone have experience with that?
http://www.molyresin.com/molyresin_about.asp
Anyone have experience with that?
I refinished my Kimber with Gun-Kote. I used the Matte Black on the slide (without the teflon) and the Stainless Steel color w/ teflon on the frame.
Watch the vidoes on the 'How To' section on the Brownell's web sight. They say that the Gun Kote w/out teflon is preferred for guns with tight tolerances.
In my case, it did appear that the teflon Gun Kote was a little thicker on the frame. I am happy with the results and hope the finish wears well.
Good Luck and do a search for more information before you start your project.
Watch the vidoes on the 'How To' section on the Brownell's web sight. They say that the Gun Kote w/out teflon is preferred for guns with tight tolerances.
In my case, it did appear that the teflon Gun Kote was a little thicker on the frame. I am happy with the results and hope the finish wears well.
Good Luck and do a search for more information before you start your project.
I've used Norrells, KG, and Lauers and all three looked terrible within a short period of time (less than 6 months). All three were applied over porous surfaces (AO prep and Park) and while the porous surface helped hold the coatings they still wore right off.
I have several SIGs and their Nitron/DLC coating have been by far the most durable. However, my next finish will be Melonite or Boron Carbide.
I have several SIGs and their Nitron/DLC coating have been by far the most durable. However, my next finish will be Melonite or Boron Carbide.
We quit bluing about 25 years ago due to my health. I have (greatly) missed not having a decent, durable coating since. Cold blue and fume bluing and heat blue are all pretty limited in what they can do and their durability.
About a year ago, I went on a new search for a finish.
Out of products that Brownell's carried, I picked Gun-Kote mostly because of what the techs at Brownell's said. I had tried all their "other" canned finishes. They worked somewhat, but with not very professional results. Then before purchasing the product, I started doing some online searching and got in touch with Wilson's smiths and a couple of other smiths. Gun-Kote was one of the highest rated finishes in the market place.
So I went straight to KG Coatings to find the reality of things. The owner has top notch ethics and believes that G-K is the greatest finish out there. I tend to agree, but my experience is less, so...
Anyway, I ended up with a cheapie blast cabinet. My compressor wouldn't even think of running it. New BIG compressor. The air lines were not up to what the cabinet and compressor needed. New copper air system with moisture traps and filters. I thought I was "done" except for a "simple" oven.
The oven ended up costing me $900. So much for "simple".
Then came trying some suggested spray guns as the cans will not give an even finish. Went through three guns (and a few regulators/filters) before I settled on the air brush that KG uses in house.
So I ended up with $7000 worth of system that should do it all. I did not take into account the learning curve of learning to spray. It ain't like spraying paint! It is more like spraying thin ink.
It has taken me a flat YEAR to start selling my output. I've done a few pieces for customers at no charge up to a couple of months ago.
Finishes available are "flat", "semigloss", and "gloss" in almost all colors. For guns, and in my opinion, flat is way superior. The semigloss looks somewhat "painted" to me. The KG guys say the gloss in many cases is even more "cheezy". There are many more colors available than anyone lists. If you want it, Gun-Kote will mix it! If a couple of folks want it, it is added to the line. But they don't even start to list all their colors.
When properly applied, Gun-Kote is from .0002 to .0005 of an inch thick. It passes military tests at over 500 hours of salt spray with NO corrosion. The dent impact flexibility is very high. Resistance to all chemical cleaners/chemicals is very high. (I left a puddle of high molarity sulphuric acid and another puddle of nitric acid on a piece overnight with no effect.)
The factory recommends knocking off sharp edges of parts to coat for maximum effect. However, I have about 30 pieces of cut off barrels and actions and such, all with sharp cut edges left, piled on a display case for customers to examine. Other than where I or customers have scraped one piece with another sharp edge repeatedly, there is no apparent wear. There is a parkerized piece and a couple of blued pieces laying with them. Their finishes are pretty trashed by the same handling.
If the piece is properly prepared and degreased and finish applied, I have yet to see a more durable or attractive finish. It *can* be abraided off. In fact, that is the only way you can remove it. But it withstands even abrasion very well.
I won't go through all the phases that my application went through to get the effects that I wanted. However, most folks do not experience that anyway, so maybe it's just me. Or maybe it's my standards. At any rate, I would suggest that anyone give it a try (with an airbrush). If you get it on well and baked well, you will have a great, durable finish.
Oh! One more suggestion. Do NOT trust your home oven thermostat for baking temps. The oven will likely do the job, though convection is MUCH better. Find a way to stuff a good thermometer like Brownell carries for bluing around the door seal. My oven uses a quality (home) oven thermostat and I have to constantly watch the thermometer and make adjustments. I'm in the process of remedying that. As far as an oven goes, you would be much better off with an oven from a yard sale that never again is used for cooking. The fumes are pretty nasty. I don't know if they will ever come out of the oven. Two of my customers have had to buy their wives new ovens after trying this. One is still getting away with it. This will limit you to handguns mostly, but that is the forum we are in.
For long guns, you will either need a commercial convection oven or build one as I did.
If I were to choose colors, I would limit things to Wilson Gray and Flat Black, but some of the others are nice also. I now have about 10 colors and add more on a monthly basis, but some of them can be finicky to coat and bake.
David
About a year ago, I went on a new search for a finish.
Out of products that Brownell's carried, I picked Gun-Kote mostly because of what the techs at Brownell's said. I had tried all their "other" canned finishes. They worked somewhat, but with not very professional results. Then before purchasing the product, I started doing some online searching and got in touch with Wilson's smiths and a couple of other smiths. Gun-Kote was one of the highest rated finishes in the market place.
So I went straight to KG Coatings to find the reality of things. The owner has top notch ethics and believes that G-K is the greatest finish out there. I tend to agree, but my experience is less, so...
Anyway, I ended up with a cheapie blast cabinet. My compressor wouldn't even think of running it. New BIG compressor. The air lines were not up to what the cabinet and compressor needed. New copper air system with moisture traps and filters. I thought I was "done" except for a "simple" oven.
The oven ended up costing me $900. So much for "simple".
Then came trying some suggested spray guns as the cans will not give an even finish. Went through three guns (and a few regulators/filters) before I settled on the air brush that KG uses in house.
So I ended up with $7000 worth of system that should do it all. I did not take into account the learning curve of learning to spray. It ain't like spraying paint! It is more like spraying thin ink.
It has taken me a flat YEAR to start selling my output. I've done a few pieces for customers at no charge up to a couple of months ago.
Finishes available are "flat", "semigloss", and "gloss" in almost all colors. For guns, and in my opinion, flat is way superior. The semigloss looks somewhat "painted" to me. The KG guys say the gloss in many cases is even more "cheezy". There are many more colors available than anyone lists. If you want it, Gun-Kote will mix it! If a couple of folks want it, it is added to the line. But they don't even start to list all their colors.
When properly applied, Gun-Kote is from .0002 to .0005 of an inch thick. It passes military tests at over 500 hours of salt spray with NO corrosion. The dent impact flexibility is very high. Resistance to all chemical cleaners/chemicals is very high. (I left a puddle of high molarity sulphuric acid and another puddle of nitric acid on a piece overnight with no effect.)
The factory recommends knocking off sharp edges of parts to coat for maximum effect. However, I have about 30 pieces of cut off barrels and actions and such, all with sharp cut edges left, piled on a display case for customers to examine. Other than where I or customers have scraped one piece with another sharp edge repeatedly, there is no apparent wear. There is a parkerized piece and a couple of blued pieces laying with them. Their finishes are pretty trashed by the same handling.
If the piece is properly prepared and degreased and finish applied, I have yet to see a more durable or attractive finish. It *can* be abraided off. In fact, that is the only way you can remove it. But it withstands even abrasion very well.
I won't go through all the phases that my application went through to get the effects that I wanted. However, most folks do not experience that anyway, so maybe it's just me. Or maybe it's my standards. At any rate, I would suggest that anyone give it a try (with an airbrush). If you get it on well and baked well, you will have a great, durable finish.
Oh! One more suggestion. Do NOT trust your home oven thermostat for baking temps. The oven will likely do the job, though convection is MUCH better. Find a way to stuff a good thermometer like Brownell carries for bluing around the door seal. My oven uses a quality (home) oven thermostat and I have to constantly watch the thermometer and make adjustments. I'm in the process of remedying that. As far as an oven goes, you would be much better off with an oven from a yard sale that never again is used for cooking. The fumes are pretty nasty. I don't know if they will ever come out of the oven. Two of my customers have had to buy their wives new ovens after trying this. One is still getting away with it. This will limit you to handguns mostly, but that is the forum we are in.
For long guns, you will either need a commercial convection oven or build one as I did.
If I were to choose colors, I would limit things to Wilson Gray and Flat Black, but some of the others are nice also. I now have about 10 colors and add more on a monthly basis, but some of them can be finicky to coat and bake.
David
I have done couple pistol with Norrell and have been very satisifed with the result. The key is good prep work. If the finish is not durable then the problem is usually due to low baking temperature. I use a pair of baking thermometer to get the correct temp. I found my oven thermometer to read about 30-50 degrees higher than my baking ones.
BTW. I only use flat finish as the semi gloss and gloss looks too "fake".
BTW. I only use flat finish as the semi gloss and gloss looks too "fake".
David, thanks for that detailed post!
I played with the idea of getting set up to parkerize and maybe cote a gun myself, but once I really started looking at what it was actually going to cost, I scratched the idea. For a guy like me that might do a gun every few years, it would be cheaper to pay the pros to do it.
I played with the idea of getting set up to parkerize and maybe cote a gun myself, but once I really started looking at what it was actually going to cost, I scratched the idea. For a guy like me that might do a gun every few years, it would be cheaper to pay the pros to do it.
I use Norrell's and I have been happy with the results. This is the first time hearing about poor results with Norrell's.
The advantage that Duracoat has over a Moly Resin is that it is offered in various colors/camo and it does not need a large oven to cure. This is a huge advantage when refinishing a rifle.
The advantage that Duracoat has over a Moly Resin is that it is offered in various colors/camo and it does not need a large oven to cure. This is a huge advantage when refinishing a rifle.
My first attempt with Gunkote isn't worth posting, but I stripped it yesterday (it was tough) and am going to redo in Duracoat. The Gunkote that I have seen is much tougher than the Duracoat I put on a couple of my knives, but I think it has more to do with preparation. I would use the Gunkote again on my wife's 1911, but I'm just not that good with a spray can and can do more precise work with an airbrush, despite the more complicated clean up.
-R
This was my first attempt with Duracoat on a Geman police-surplus P9S:
![Image]()
My buddy's 1911 with Gunkote after extensive preparation:
![Image]()
-R
This was my first attempt with Duracoat on a Geman police-surplus P9S:
My buddy's 1911 with Gunkote after extensive preparation:
2 pistols and 1 rifle done by Macs Firearms Restoration (www.shootiniron.com). Price is reasonable and the quality of work is fantastic. Turnaround is usually 1-2 weeks. Check out the web sight. He's the only one I let Gunkote my toys now.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
