My understanding is that a carbine fires anything up to an intermediate cartridge. 5.56 included
Barrel length, stock etc also come into play in determining "carbine vs rifle"

I dont think Ive every heard of a 30 cal being referred to as a carbine, regardless of barrel length

Im 100% positive some crotchety old member will viciously correct me...haha

However, I think Im pretty close

 

I dont think Ive every heard of a 30 cal being referred to as a carbine, regardless of barrel length

My 18'' barrel M-1 .30 Carbine will be heartbroken when it reads this.

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6 million M-1 .30 cal Carbines were produced for WWII between 1941 - 1945. It was popular to carry because of its light weight - about half that of a .30 cal M-1 Garand rifle.

 

I have 4 long guns, a SG, M1A, M4, and a Marlin Lever action 44 magnum replica (I think ca 1884?). I only shoot them once a year as my passion is pistols for me as I find them more fun and more challenging. So I certainly don't qualify as an expert in rifle LOL. But I shoot them well.

I have no idea what the formal definition is, but I am 99.99% certain the M1A is a rifle, and the M4 and Marlin are carbines. At least that is what my arms tell me after a while when I shoot them at combat speed free hand unsupported ;-).

 

I believe it is barrel length that determines whether a long gun receives the 'carbine' designation. The magic number cut-off, if I recall, is 18". Of course, in this modern-day world where all is relative and a new gun-guru is christened every Friday on youtube, who knows??? Today, we have rifles identifying as carbines, carbines identifying as sub-guns. Sub-guns wearing wigs & make-up... it's anybody's call at this point!!!

 

Where I came from in modern time carbine was not even used as applied to military select fire rifles. Actually they were not even called rifles they were called avtomat's rifle was for SVDs and such Whatever shortened AK's there were were suffixed by U for shortened and that was that. Carbine was something for hunting. The scientific distinction that I learned back in a Soviet day a lighter barrel and barrel length under 23 inches which of course would make a full size AK a carbine. And yet VSS with barrel length of 8inches IIRC is considered a rifle while SKS with 20 inch barrel is designated carbine. So go figure. Seems it's a definition that nobody can agree on from country to country.

 

Ruskie guns don't count.

 

I have always thought it had to do with barrel length but there could be more to it that I don't know.

 

Anybody think to ask Webster?

 

You are supposed to show a knife when you post Scuba. Don't you know anything?

 

My understanding is that a carbine is either a shorter version of a particular rifle or it's any rifle with a barrel under 20". For example Uberti makes the 1873 in three barrel lengths and describes them as follows... 19" (carbine), 20" (short rifle) and 24" (rifle).

 

Up until 1903 the Army had Springfield and Krag rifles and carbines. Same actions, same ammo, long and short. Similar in foreign armies.

Winchester lever action rifles and carbines have different stocks and barrel bands as well as different lengths, hence the Short Rifles.

But the M1 Carbine has little in common with the M1 Rifle.
The M4 Carbine is a direct derivative of the M16 rifle, though.

 

Carbine = shallow curve buttplate, 20" or less barrel and barrel band instead of forearm cap.

Rifle = cresent buttplate, 20" or greater barrel and forearm cap.

But Winchester wanted your money and would build nearly any combination you wanted.

 

A carbine is a short-barreled, lightweight rifle. As for a "real technical delineation"? No.

 

Your "Carbine" is always going to have "shorter" barrels than your (Main Battle Rifle), and the cartridge will always be something smaller than the Main Battle Round.

So, 45/70 or 308 or 30-06? Always a "rifle".. A 357, 45LC, 44mag? Always a "carbine" - and yeah, barrel-length plays a factor as does the overall weight. In the latter case above, there isn't much point to much more than an 18" barrel.

Asking for further detail, you might just as well ask a "Journalism" or Congresscritter to define "assault weapon".

 

Your "Carbine" is always going to have "shorter" barrels than your (Main Battle Rifle), and the cartridge will always be something smaller than the Main Battle Round.

So, 45/70 or 308 or 30-06? Always a "rifle".. A 357, 45LC, 44mag? Always a "carbine" - and yeah, barrel-length plays a factor as does the overall weight. In the latter case above, there isn't much point to much more than an 18" barrel.

Asking for further detail, you might just as well ask a "Journalism" or Congresscritter to define "assault weapon".

Beg to differ. There are plenty of 7.62x51 (.308) carbines including many AR-10's. My FNAR 7.62x51 has a 16" barrel, and may be considered a carbine. The legendary Karabiner-1931 (K-31)was considered a carbine, as the 26" barrel was shorter than the 31" of the M1911. The 7.5x51 Swiss is surely a "Main Battle Rifle" round.

"Carbine" just means a short, light rifle. How short, and how light, is purely a matter of opinion, or a naming convention by a manufacturer, or military, or somebody.

 

Carbines are like porn.

Cant define it, but I know it when I see it.

 

Yeah, (not an expert) but I always associated "carbine" with the size ... shorter barrel. I've seen "30 carbine" as title to those little, short military rifles and also some lever action rifles too. I never read an actual definition.

Here's my knife >>>> (my only Glock)>>>>

 

Sheesh, stop beggin', guys..

Sticking a long barrel on a pistol cartridge certainly won't make it a "rifle" of the MBR sort.. Chopping down the barrel on a rifle-cartridge doesn't really make it a "carbine".

And , I don't care who makes what: the AR-10 was an MBR.

Still, if we couldn't argue this crapdoodle over a brew, we'd have to discuss the <verboten> Politics.

 

Sheesh, stop beggin', guys..

Sticking a long barrel on a pistol cartridge certainly won't make it a "rifle" of the MBR sort..

Stick an 18" barrel on your AR pistol and see what the ATF calls it.😝

 

Remember that the early cartridge rifles like the 1860, '66 and '73 weren't considered "pistol caliber" at the time. Metallic cartridges were new technology, and designers were still working out the details on how to adapt a relatively weak repeating action like the Winchester's to use more powerful cartridges. We can laugh at long guns chambered for the weakling .44 Henry Rimfire today, but it was a big deal back then. The 1866 was probably the first cartridge long gun to be offered in three versions... rifle (24"), carbine (20"), and musket (27").

The conundrum related to this discussion is the 20" version. With a round barrel, shotgun-style buttplate and barrel band it was known as a carbine. But with the 1873 model Winchester also offered a 20" version of its standard 24" rifle (crescent buttplate and no barrel band) known as a "short rifle".

 

If you check Webster and such you will find that it was a shortened rifle that could be used on a horse, a Calvary tool. All modern versions are just short barreled rifles, although the company may or may not make a longer one. For example, I had a Remington Model 74 Carbine in 30-06, it was a great little gun. The barrel was 18 inches, short for a 30-06, but much more handy than the normal 22 inch barrel. I also have a Ruger RSI,Carbine, in 308, once again, an 18 inch barrel.

Then of course the British 303 Jungle Carbine was a shorter version of th service rifle and the M1 Carbine was just a cute little guy. And Ruger has their Deerstalker carbine. One their website Rossi calls all of their lever action guns rifles, from the 16 .5 inch barrel to the 24 inch barrel.

But then the Remington Model 7, with it;s 20 inch barrel was always called a rifle. But then the Rem Model 600 with it's 18.5 inch barrel was a carbine, and so was the cheaper version, the later model 660 and or Mohawk which had a 20 inch barrel.

So, they just call short rifles whatever they want to call them. Personally, all of my AR type guns are the carbine length, just because if I want a long gun, I take a real gun with much more power.

But then there are the pistol caliber carbines.... nobody is going to call his long 9mm semi auto a rifle....just saying, it does not matter..

 

If you check Webster and such you will find that it was a shortened rifle that could be used on a horse, a Calvary tool.

"A Calvary tool"?? Really?? A tool for the hill whereupon Christ was crucified?? Hey, I'm not even a Christian, but I know what "Calvary" is, and it ain't combat troops on horses or in any other conveyances.

 

We also have guns like the Ruger 10/22, which for decades was only available with an 18.5" barrel and was always called a carbine.

Let's face it... in the gun world definitions are all over the place. Don't get me started on the whole "Series 70" thing, or even what features determine what makes a pistol a 1911.

 

Before 1900 it was a shortened rifle, usually with the same cartridge, e.g., Krag or KAR98K. After 1900, is could be either a shorter barrel with the same cartridge (Kar98K, M4, OR a shorter weapon with a lower power cartridge, (M1-M2, M3). The Ruger 10/22 could be called either, because it was not derived from a military weapon.

Again, ruskie guns do not count.

 

As per Websters:
"The meaning of CARBINE is a short-barreled lightweight firearm originally used by cavalry."

However if we go to the etymology (origin) of the word it gets somewhat muddied as to where the word came from.

short rifle (in 19c. especially one adapted for mounted troops), 1580s, from French carabine (Middle French carabin), used of light horsemen and also of the weapon they carried; it is of uncertain origin, perhaps from Medieval Latin Calabrinus "Calabrian" (i.e., "rifle made in Calabria"). A less-likely theory (Gamillscheg, etc.) connects it to Old French escarrabin "corpse-bearer during the plague," literally (probably) "carrion beetle," said to have been an epithet for archers from Flanders.

carbine | Etymology, origin and meaning of carbine by etymonline

Considering we don't have horse cavalry any longer modern carbines are most likely just shorter barrel rifles (from 16" to 20") and typically named "carbines" by their manufacturers or unofficially by their users making the definition even more muddied.
Oh and I own a fairly accurate reproduction of an 1874 Sharps Carbine in 45-70 Government.

 

This is 2022, should we still be using terms like Carbine and Rifle? We need to come up with something more inclusive so we don't offend any FIREARM!

 

 

I think it’s all just a simple marketing thing, kinda like the “match grade” thing. I have a number of “rifles“ ranging from 20” to 32” barrel length and the only “carbine” I have has a 16” barrel, I believe it’s just pure marketing.

 

Can we call an AR15 with 16” barrel a rifle? Or will the mag/clip word police come get us?

 

Right, it is like calling a 9mm with a 4 inch barrel a "1911."

 

Love it.

This lives in my reloading room.

Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

 

But, but... guys......... we STILL haven't answered the most OBVIOUS question!


Is it pronounced car-BEEN or car-BINE?