Pistols are forged frame and slides IIRC, all hand fit, no MIM parts in a W/C. Lifetime Warranty. Comparing a Kimber to a W/C is like comparing a Jetta to a Ferrari.

 

What are "MIM" parts?

 

Getting into top shelf limited manufacturing handguns is just like coaxing uppermost RWHP & RWTQ out of a vehicle, the higher you go, the more per RWHP & RWTQ that it gets.
I just purchased a Wilson Combat Classic Super Grade and I love it. I would do it again if I had the money.
Is it worth the money?
Only you can answer that as only you know your personal financial status. I also own a Springfield Armory early '90's Trophy match, which were fitted in the custom shop, a Les Baer Premier II, a Jim Hoag long-slide, but nothing matches the WC SG for aesthetics, hand fitting, smoothness.
HTH

 

I can afford it, it's just a matter of do I want too. So far the comments have been very helpful.

 

"MIM" = Metal Injection Molded simply put they are molded like plastic but they are metal

 

Kimbers are fine firearms, and should serve you very well. I like them a lot, and have several Kimbers.

As some others have posted, WC's represent a large step up in terms of the amount of labor and premium-quality parts that goes into hand-building the firearm. Consequently, they are fitted and finished to a higher level, and cost more. Whether or not the Wilson is worth the additional cost is an individual's decision.

I suggest you try to find some Wilsons locally (although this could be difficult) that you could handle, and see if you notice the difference. I never thought a 1911 could get much better than a Kimber, until I picked up a Wilson.

 

As some others have posted, WC's represent a large step up in terms of the amount of labor and premium-quality parts that goes into hand-building the firearm. Consequently, they are fitted and finished to a higher level, and cost more. Whether or not the Wilson is worth the additional cost is an individual's decision.

Carbon Footprint's comment is very well stated. I own both Kimber's and a Wilson and have absolutely no regrets with either brand. They're in my carry rotation and I trust my life and the lives of my family to each of them.

Wilson's are built by gunsmith's with a lot more time per gun compared to Kimber's manufacturing process. Wilson guns are also hand fitted at each step of the build, compared to Kimber's.

Problems can occur with either manufacturer. Wilson's customer service is outstanding. If you have a problem with a Kimber, they also will make it right.

Your decision is a matter of what you can justify.

 

Maybe put up an ad at your local range, asking if anyone has one, that you could shoot. You buy the ammo (of their choice) and ask the owner to tell you as much as they can about it.

People will talk about their guns as much as their cars (if they are hot rods).

 

BTW, there's Les Baer and Ed Brown.

 

Any semi custom 1911 is head and shoulders above Kimber in both materials, fitting, and accuracy.

My only hesitation with Wilson's price is that I can have one built a by one of the top gunsmiths for the same or a tad more than Wilson's top of the line.

 

Any semi custom 1911 is head and shoulders above Kimber in both materials, fitting, and accuracy. My only hesitation with Wilson's price is that I can have one built a by one of the top gunsmiths for the same or a tad more than Wilson's top of the line.

So you rate Wilson's gunsmiths as second rate?

 

My Wilson CQB was simply the finest gun I have owned to date in terms of fit, finish, function and accuracy. Having said that I let it go to a friend (the person who came in 1/2 hour after I bought it hoping it was still there) and have settled into a one stock STI, one build to my choice Fusion and one custom modded Springer Mil Spec that is simply one of the finest running and nasty accurate guns I have ever handled, odd as that may sound. I can put that gun head to head with my old Wilson and match it in terms of SD/HD handling...........might not match it from a locked down rest though.

Having owned herd of 1911's I say settle into what you really like and what fits your personal choice in a weapon......whether high end, mid range or modded up lower end.

But again......WILSON makes a real nice gun.

Be safe, shoot well. :rock:

 

While the Kimber is a very good production gun, that's what it is. Comparing it to a semi-custom 1911 like a Wilson Combat is, at best, Facetious. If you're going to compare, make it Apples to Apples. Anything else is nonsensical.

 

Not facetious at all. The information provided thus far has been ever educational for me. I'm not an expert, just a user trying to gain some knowledge.

 

Yes their is a huge difference beyound just a feel good about owning the best. However, it may or may not be value added for you. They are high performance, not just in the sense of mechanical accuracy but in the way they actually feel when you run them in high performance situations.

Its like how a racecar driver can feel even the slightest differences in their cars, shooters who shoot a lot can feel and apreciate the difference. As a competition shooter, between practice at home and the range in addition to the couple matches a month I shoot- my comp gun is in my hands a lot. I can appreciate everything being smooth and tight. A casual shooter doesn't care how smooth the mags drop free and how fast a new one can be slamed in...but I do. That's the kind of stuff that comes into play when you start talking about higher grades of 1911.

 

i know how you feel. i just got into shooting, and after trying out berretas, glocks, a sig, and more, the 1911 seemed the way to go. a year ago spending 1500 on a gun seemed outrages. and i am know the proud owner of a kimber. i spend most of my spare time looking up these top notch brands wandering if they are really worth 1000 to 2000 more then a gun i am more then satisfied with, but after seeing these comments, i think they just might be. a common problem with kimbers i have realized, is their quality control. its a hit or miss. you seemed to have scored a good one, but many have had problems and others dont want to take the risk (i myself need to work out a few kinks in mine). with these guns you are almost garenteed an outstanding pistol. although wilsons are not on my wishlist, a couple of night hawks and browns make the cut

 

When I first started shooting 1911's I bought what most consider "low end" guns.

I have since sold those guns to buy a Kimber. I really like Kimber and it was the best gun that I could afford.

Now Im saving for a custom gun I haven't decided on Wilson Combat, Les Baer or Ed Brown. I am along ways from purchasing but until then I will happily shoot and carry my kimber. I am glad there are levels or grades of quality 1911's that are affordable.

The way I see it is you can go buy a corvette or Mustang (Kimber) and have a lot of fun driving it. It would probally be fun and enjoyable for the majority of people and last a long time if properly taken care of. On the other end is the guys that want a custom built one of a kind hot rod (Wilson Combat) that is assembled by hand. This car is going to cost a lot more money and not every one can afford it. Is one really better than the other? It depends on how you define better?

When I do finally have enough money to have a custom gun built I will keep my Kimber because it has been 100% reliable is very accurate and fun to shoot.

 

If reliability is the most important factor check out this modified 1911 design.

http://policelink.monster.com/products/products/232-hk-usp-45

comes in several flavors and is used by top military and LEO folks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_USP

I own both the regular size 45 and the tactical with the slightly threaded barrel. They are a 1911 design on steroids, shoot +P+ all day, rated for it.

 

Great performing pistols they are. 1911's they are not, not even close.

 

Just building on what everyone else has mentioned - the key differences between Wilson and most other mass-produced 1911 are:

Forged Parts / In-House
This provides a higher confidence level around the quality of parts. This does not necessarily mean that Wilson parts are 'better' than MIM or 'better' than imported parts (such as Springfield does with some of its frames from Brazil). Many MIM and imported parts are just as 'good'. It is just that the chance of getting a 'bad' MIM or imported part may be greater if the MIM or import quality control is not as stringent.

Hand-Fit
Every part is hand-fit by a tech that works on just that one stage. This provides a higher confidence level around the fit of parts. This does not necessarily make a big difference in reliability or accuracy at low round counts. You could have a RIA that is equally as reliable or accurate out-of-the-box. However, when you get to high round counts - like 10,000 or 20,000, the 'better' fit of Wilson's may reduce battering or peening of parts. I.e. parts that are not precisely fitted may have some 'gaps' or play between them which may cause battering or peening. Because of this, you can probably expect Wilson's to 'last longer' but this isn't to say that there aren't RIAs or Kimbers, etc. that happen to be well fit out of the factory that will last equally as long.

Custom Options
The other thing with going with a 'production-custom' builder like Wilson is that you can order a gun exactly the way you want it. If you want a Commander length with rail, lightweight, no slide serrations at all and bob-tailed with pink grips - they can probably build it if you are willing to wait.

Customer Service
Lastly, their customer service may be more responsive compared to some. Though CS from say Springfield Armory or S&W, and even RIA (and probably others) is also considered to be excellent.

To Summarize:
1911s from other companies may turn out to be 'just as good' as a Wilson (and many are), but they also may not be - depending on quality control, etc. Whereas with a Wilson - you have a much higher level of confidence that you've got a 'good' gun that will last - and if you happen to get the lemon exception - you know they will take care of it.

Just my 10 cents.

 

...

 

Wilson and Kimber are not in the same class. I own two Wilsons and would not buy another one. I do not feel they are all they are all they are cracked up to be. I feel they are over rated and over priced. They make some guns that are works of art, but the biggest percentage of there guns are hand fit production guns like many other makers. They do have great customer service, like many other companies. I like guns that don't need customer service. In answer to your question they are that much better. You will never covence the people that overspent for their Wilsons. There are other guns out there that are as good or better than Wilson for allot les money. The one thing you get with a Wilson is the name on the side, so if you are buying it to impress your friends thats another story. IMHO

 

Just curious....which guns (I assume your talking 1911's) have you found to be "better" than Wilson and cost a lot less?

 

Wilson and Kimber are not in the same class. I own two Wilsons and would not buy another one. I do not feel they are all they are all they are cracked up to be. I feel they are over rated and over priced. They make some guns that are works of art, but the biggest percentage of there guns are hand fit production guns like many other makers. When you get into their high dollar customs that is a different class also and Wilsons best gun would not make the list with the true custom makers. They do have great customer service, like many other companies. I like guns that don't need customer service. In answer to your question are they that much better. In a word no You will never convence the people that overspent for their Wilsons. There are other guns out there that are as good or better than Wilson for allot les money. The one thing you get with a Wilson is the name on the side, so if you are buying it to impress your friends thats another story. IMHO

 

Also interesting. Having owned a Wilson and shot a number of custom makers guns to date I would have a different position on this. Personally, I have never bought a gun to impress anyone. But my Wilson did impress a number of well experienced 1911 owners and shooters at the range with its quality, handling and accuracy. Again, not by my intent as I choose a gun for what it does not the name on of the maker. This one (Wilson CQB full sized) came in as a trade in gun. I looked it over and bought it. Having already owned a number of quality weapons the Wilson was hands down above the others but not as nice as a number of full customs I had handled along the way. But, I definately did get more than just a name on the side in this gun. It was what it was, that being a very nice qaulity gun in hand....fit, finish, parts, handling and accuracy wise. That gun served me very well while I had it. Just another man's experience.

Having said that would I buy another now? Nope. I have settled into the guns (three of them) that really handle, look and function the way I want them to personally along with having excellant accuracy for the SD/HD shooting I do.

Be safe, shoot well. :rock:

 

They have to give them away. That is a marketing stunt so they can claim they are used law enforcement and swat teams.

 

I have owned dozens of standard firearms. I figured most firearms are sufficient for what they are intended and that "high priced" semi-custom and custom pistols were a waste of money. I mean really, they all do the same thing. What difference would there be? Then I bought a Wilson Combat CQB Compact. There is a world of difference shooting a Wilson when compared to even some high priced standard manufacture guns. My eyes were opened. I am sure Baer's and Brown's are excellent too but I will only pay those prices for a Wilson. They are amazing. I can't wait until I can get another one. I am just a poor cop so the occasion to spend like that and get away with it are few and far between. My first Wilson was a present to myself upon promotion.

 

Not to rip on you, but this statement is inconsistent. You start out by saying you 'figured' high priced semi and custom pistols were a waste of money until you purchased a WC. So, you learned a lesson by experience.

Then you state you'd only pay that price for WC, even though you are 'sure' Brown and Baer pistols are excellent too.

Shoot a Brown or a Baer, then decide whether or not you'd spend your money on those brands.

m

 

Buy the Kimber if you want to expend 500 rounds "breaking in" the gun. Expect failures. Buy the Wilson Combat if you want to expend 500 rounds before they recommend you clean the gun and expect no failures. Can not compare Customer Service. From my perspective Kimber doesn't have any.

 

Interesting.

I have owned multiple full sized Kimbers from all over their model and price range. Although "500 rounds break in" was the word on the street mine (and others will full sized Kimbers at the range) ran just fine from round one out the tube. That applies to each of the five Kimbers I owned. Again, similar results from other owners I know at the range as well. No real break in period. Just clean, lube and shoot right out of the box. They worked fine from round one. No failures outside of one new 1911 shooter who limp wristed his gun. Just one mans experience.

Now, before I get branded as a Kimber apologist...........I owned and do own guns from multiple makers (including a full sized Wilson CQB) and I have experienced problems with only one gun out of the box to date. I would recommend a number of different makers weapons besides Kimbers.

Can't speak for customer service now but I did have night sites put on one Custom II. Went like clockwork in a timely manner. That was awhile back though.


Be safe, shoot well. :rock:

 

In case this thread turns ugly. I'd like to thank most of the guys for their input up to this point. It has been very useful, informative and constructive.

 

Idle Thought's...

What I seriously do not understand is the level of... vitriolic spewed on these forums and I mean primarily by a rather small cadre of individuals that seem almost hyper-focused on the Kimber brand. What I mean to say is, I'm currently on my third 1911 and third "brand name" during my lifetime (I'm forty-five years old, I've shot since I was a child). Why do I own a Kimber now over Brands X or Y? Because I experienced one kind of shortcoming or another in both previous brands. So you know what... I just don't buy Brand X or Y any more. That's all. What I do not do is take every opportunity to "trash talk" those brands. I have not mounted what feels like a Quixote-esque campaign against these brands. If someone else suggests buying one, I support their decision. If they ask for my opinion I offer it in a calm and rational manner.

And why not? I don't need everyone to own a Kimber to feel good about owning mine. Nor would I feel it's any less a pistol if I were the only one who owned one. Sure, I've been known to lay down a little good-natured "smack" against certain brands, but none of my posts can approach the the sheer intensity, or mirror the curiously deep-seated hatred, really, of some posts I've read here directed at Kimber. I find it curious because such emotional reactions to something so trivial, really, I simply find odd.

And yes, I know that for many the purchase of a sidearm equates to buying a tool that one must be able to bet one's life on. I can, and do, fully appreciate that fact. Even so, that only encourages me all the more to have rational discourse, to give factual input and to put the emotional vitriolic behind.

Not really sure what the point of this post was... I guess I just wanted to get that off my chest and all, but really... I do find the intensity of emotion displayed against Kimber on these forums (and it does seem specific to these forums) interesting. It makes me wonder what is really behind it.

 

What I seriously do not understand is the level of... vitriolic spewed on these forums and I mean primarily by a rather small cadre of individuals that seem almost hyper-focused on the Kimber brand. What I mean to say is, I'm currently on my third 1911 and third "brand name" during my lifetime (I'm forty-five years old, I've shot since I was a child). Why do I own a Kimber now over Brands X or Y? Because I experienced one kind of shortcoming or another in both previous brands. So you know what... I just don't buy Brand X or Y any more. That's all. What I do not do is take every opportunity to "trash talk" those brands. I have not mounted what feels like a Quixote-esque campaign against these brands. If someone else suggests buying one, I support their decision. If they ask for my opinion I offer it in a calm and rational manner.

And why not? I don't need everyone to own a Kimber to feel good about owning mine. Nor would I feel it's any less a pistol if I were the only one who owned one. Sure, I've been known to lay down a little good-natured "smack" against certain brands, but none of my posts can approach the the sheer intensity, or mirror the curiously deep-seated hatred, really, of some posts I've read here directed at Kimber. I find it curious because such emotional reactions to something so trivial, really, I simply find odd.

And yes, I know that for many the purchase of a sidearm equates to buying a tool that one must be able to bet one's life on. I can, and do, fully appreciate that fact. Even so, that only encourages me all the more to have rational discourse, to give factual input and to put the emotional vitriolic behind.

Not really sure what the point of this post was... I guess I just wanted to get that off my chest and all, but really... I do find the intensity of emotion displayed against Kimber on these forums (and it does seem specific to these forums) interesting. It makes me wonder what is really behind it.

Don't let it get to you; some people are stuck in high school brain land and always will be. I have a number of brands of 1911s, including high end customs and the brand you mention. I have an affinity for all of them and shoot all regularly. Some are better than others, but I'm keeping them all. If anyone doesn't like a particular brand, they shouldn't buy it. Myself, if I had the cash, I'd by them all.....

 

I wouldn't say comparing kimber to wilson is apples and oranges because they are still 1911's (wilson to glock is apples and oranges). It is equally ignorant to say that a kimber can do anything a wilson can do as it is to say anything less that a semi custom 1911 is junk. What is hard for people to understand is that while they are guns of the same design (1911) they are targeted at very different consumer niches. Its very hard to explain to somebody who doesn't already "get it" for themsleves. If you have to wonder if they are worth the price, they probably aren't for you. If you shoot a lot and find yourself saying man I wish my pistol had this and did that...or you just decide that if you are going to shoot a lot, might as well have something really nice- then your prospective of the price turns from expensive to value.

Its not just that people like the idea of a custom made gun (although there are plenty of those people out there buying more pistol than they need too), semi customs are really targeted at a niche of shooter with a certain level of high performance expectations.

I own pistols on both ends of the price spectrum and if one shoots them side by side the differences are tangible and obvious.

 

I have been shooting 1911 type guns since 1965 and have owned two Wilsons, both about 13-14 years ago. I have also owned, or still own, Colt, Springfield, Kimber, Heinie, Baer, Clark, etc. The two Wilsons I owned were ordered direct from Wilson with a local FFL handling the transfer. As most folks rave about Wilson, it appears I may have received the only two mediocre ones ever shipped. I was disappointed with various aspects of both fit and finish with both of my Wilsons. If I had not had had experience with quite a few 1911 type guns for years, I might have not known any better, and thought because they were Wilsons, they were wonderful. The first, I sold at a loss to someone who apparently only cared that the gun said "Wilson" on it. Fine, any company can send out a substandard product once in a while. I ordered a second, slightly different, Wilson. The second one had it's own quality issues. That one, I didn't even fire. I was finally able to convince Wilson's that I wasn't wonderfully satisfied, or whatever their slogan is, and they reluctantly took this gun back and refunded the purchase price. That being said, a family member has a Wilson built on a Colt chassis that is very nice. As to Kimber, I have owned five. Only one had an issue and I considered all my Kimbers to be very good value for the money. My more expensive guns might be slightly more accurate than the Kimbers but, most often, I can't shoot well enough to demonstrate a significant difference. I do have a Rolex, but it doesn't keep time any better than any quality watch. ymmv

 

Gentlemen:

I really appreciate the spirit, heart and content of the last four posts. Good words for us all. Experience speaks way over bias and being hooked on and caught up in (for or against) a particualr maker.

Be safe, shoot well. :rock: