I had a Walther WMP in the .22mag and an FN 5.7. Both were a lot of fun but frankly just shoot the 5.7 way more. Feels better too me and like u say a more powerful round

 

I had critters in the chicken coop yesterday. Got out the old 22 TCM.

 

OK, I'm confused. For years all I heard was "the biggest problem with the 22lr is that it is RIMFIRE, and therefore less reliable and too dirty." Now, along comes a new 22 CENTERFIRE that is twice as fast and 4x the muzzle energy of a 22rimfire, and yet no one likes it. What gives??? Did you all say the same thing about a .223 rifle cartridge being no better than a 22 magnum rimfire cartridge? I don't think so.

 

[QUOTE="Ranger4

Just an opinion.
[/QUOTE]

I find nether cartridge to be anything special when fired from a handgun , More of a fun to shot handgun than a smart defensive or hunting choice . In a long gun !!

Just an opinion , like yours .

 

[QUOTE="Ranger4

Just an opinion.

I find nether cartridge to be anything special when fired from a handgun , More of a fun to shot handgun than a smart defensive or hunting choice . In a long gun !!

Just an opinion , like yours .
[/QUOTE]
Yesterday, I got an add from Palmetto, a 5.7 for $299 OTD. So, I ran some numbers again. Bottom line from the 5.7 Palmetto or Ruger or SW, most rounds will get 275 fpe. Better than 38 Special Plus P and low end short barrel 9mm. Much better than little guns like the 380. But much less than say a 40 with 400 fpe or a 357 with 500 fpe. Those of us who carried 38 wheel guns in harms way, would have no problem with 23 of these 5.7 rounds for people defense.

The 22 mag was nearly exactly 100 fpe, less, about 175 fpe. That said, it is equal to the 380 and short barrel 38 special, and you have 31 of those. A 40 grain bullet at 1,400 fps or a 30 grain bullet over 1,50 0 fps is where they fall.

The 50 grain bullets in both calibers could make a difference in penetration. I watched several gel test of both. The 22 mag will work for personal defense against people.

Neither are going to become my carry gun. I had not interest in the Palmetto at $299 because it is not threaded, I shoot suppressed. And it does not have the optics cut, for that option.

Across the board in the 5.7 the Smith and Wesson is probably the best option. At $650, I am not interested, since I already have the 22 mag. Which I highly recommend, more fun and accuracy that you can imagine. You cannot miss with that one.


Just my updated opinion.

 

Ranger4, This thread was a lot of suspenseful reading to see what you finally decided on. I guess it's too late to suggest 7.62x25? I ran across an old J and G barrel that fit right into a 1911. Lots of 32 caliber bullets to choose from but I like casting and powder coating for lots of cheep shooting. Starline makes brass. 38 super mags work like a charm.

After I started reading about the history of the round I had to get a PPS-43c, what a fun gun to get out at the range! Everyone wants a turn! Finally I got an AR barrel made and 16" really gets that bullet going. I've shot a boat load of Prairie Dogs with it in just one trip out.

As much as you like 400 Cor bon I would think Tokarev would be a natural for you? The road less traveled and all.

 

Oh, I have firearms in many calibers from .25 acp to 45-70. My problem is my personal preference is to have at least 500 rounds of each caliber I own and keep that as a minimum (use 50 buy 50). If I did that with the 5.7 round I’d have to take out a second mortgage.

 

With no access to green tip 5.7 ammo I don’t see the point. Paying outrageous prices for neutered downloaded ammo doesn’t make sense to me. Plus the last thing I need is another pistol in another caliber.

 

You have a point. With the SW 22 mag I am getting over 1,500 fps with some loads where the 5.7 is 1,700-1800 fps. That is still a power difference but for targets not a measurable difference.

What people like is to put rounds down range a long way, maybe 100 yards without recoil and still enough power to kill things. Shooting without recoil is fun, I add a suppressor and it is more fun.

Practically, most people will not be shooting through bullet proof vests, so the original hot ammo that pierces them has no practical value at all.

As far as adding another caliber, us old guys just let it happen. During the ammo crunches, over the last couple decades, I can always choose between 13 handgun rounds that I own. No, I do not shoot the 32 Seecamp much, but I do have an old stash of ammo when other rounds get scarce. I think some guys like the 5.7 in both an AR and a pistol, I do not, but i have several handguns and rifles in 22 mag, and I like that. 22s get boring and have limited range, the 22 mag doubles that, which sometimes is just OK.

All about personal preference I suppose. As an old guy, I like the variety.. 22 mag today, 45-70 tomorrow, the 9mm and even 10mm is boring after a decade or two. Just saying...

 

Compare the 22 TCM with the experimental military 22 SCHV of the early 1950s.

 

Well, I got the SW M and P 22 mag to the Range. Only had one jam with one of the plastic tip bullets but after that they were 100%. I load 4 mags, 30 rounds each with different brands of ammo, solids, hollow points, some 45 grain, and some plastic tips. I set up cans at 25 yards and firings as fast as I could you could not miss them. Pretty impressive. No reoilc, every accurate and 100% after the one round issue. I did not even clean the gun, I just made sure nothing was in the barrel and started shooting.

I do not consider it a self defense gun. I di carry it on my hip while deer hunting last week. It weighs 26 ounces with the 30 rounds, you do not even notice the gun being there.

It is not a self defense gun but I would carry it in the woods is some scenarios. I normally carry two guns, a small one like the Glock 43 and a larger when fishing, hiking, etc, this will work for that.

The gun is a blast to shoot and I found ammo at $14.00 a box, some for 27 cents also I think. The plastic tip is supposed to exceed 1500 fps so that is pretty impressive. I do recommend them, nothing wrong with the gun whatsoever.

Last thought. This thing is accurate enough for small game, and would do well in that survival bag. I it is not threaded as I thought. However, I can deal with that.

 

Well I hit the Kel Tec .22 mag and it worked quite well for me. I later got the Armscor .22TCM variation of a 1911 and it is pretty fantastic. Recently I got one of the S&W .5.7x28 pistols too. I can’t complain as it works really well. I had a while back got a S&W .30 super carry too.

But both the .22TCM and the 5.7x28 basically have about the same performance. But they need a 5 inch barrel length to work well. The .22 magnum is tight in there as well with a 5 inch barrel. Do it is a tough call about which one to carry. All of them would work.

But the 5,7x28 was absolutely devastating some years back when in 2009 Nidal Hassn used a 5,7x38 to murder 13 people and wound 30 others. The little bullets in some cases went through partitions and furniture and still broke femurs in done MPs trying to stop him. There were several soldiers who tried to bum rush him and he was still able to shoot and stop them.

So these high power 22s are very capable of stopping and or killing people. I would have no problem carrying one myself. But I wanted something more compact that I could slip into my pocket. So I am still carrying a subcompact .45 auto. But got a whole I did carry the Armscor 2011 in 22 TCM for a winter down here. But it was too big to hide well without a jacket on all the time.

 

Like you just shot the two inch Smith and Wesson, Smith and Wesson model 41, and the Winchester take down 44 Mag.
I had them for about six months before shooting. Have speed loader pistol and about 1500 rounds of ammo.
But really enjoyed the rifle and the 22 model 41, having about 5000 rounds 22 long rifle some of it eley best 22 ammo.
Still have m1 carbine 30 caliber, 380 colt pistol,45 Smith and Wesson revolver, two model 10 Smith and Wesson revolvers yet to shoot. The 45 caliber and the two model 10s look great the 45 has wooden box and all paperwork. One of the model 10 have the box and paperwork originally priced 70+ dollars.
The 380 colt and m1 30 carbine came from my shooting buddy that passed.

Wife said no more until the third safe we travel a lot, kids and grandkids.

 

Like you just shot the two inch Smith and Wesson, Smith and Wesson model 41, and the Winchester take down 44 Mag.
I had them for about six months before shooting. Have speed loader pistol and about 1500 rounds of ammo.
But really enjoyed the rifle and the 22 model 41, having about 5000 rounds 22 long rifle some of it eley best 22 ammo.
Still have m1 carbine 30 caliber, 380 colt pistol,45 Smith and Wesson revolver, two model 10 Smith and Wesson revolvers yet to shoot. The 45 caliber and the two model 10s look great the 45 has wooden box and all paperwork. One of the model 10 have the box and paperwork originally priced 70+ dollars.
The 380 colt and m1 30 carbine came from my shooting buddy that passed.

Wife said no more until the third safe we travel a lot, kids and grandkids.

Sound like my house. Wife just asked this week when I bought the new M and P 2 2 mag, if I would quit buying guns. I am down sizing, that time in my life. But still enjoy shooting most of them. Probably should sell the Redhawk, never shoot it and too big to carry. And there are others. Cannot walk far and the 300 Weatherby has not seen daylight in years.

Don't get old, lol.

 

Congratulations Ranger 4, all the information you received was nice but thing I would just buy what you wanted. All the thoughts you received would drive me crazy, enjoy.
David

 

I have always wanted a 22 mag pistol so I bought a used Single Six few years ago but then wanted a semi auto. Not sure why it had the allure but I did. At the last minute I was looking at it, there was a SW M and P in 10mm for the same price. So, I had that panicky thought, why not just buy the 10mm? As I said, I already have a 10mm, great gun, a 1911, but that one is 15 +1 in 10mm, very tempting. So, why would I need a 16 round 10mm?

Back to earth I do not need any handguns, I have a safe full of them. This was all about want. I loaded all 4 magazines and there it sits, with 120 rounds, ready to go. I will shoot it Thursday and then give a report of my impressions. It does fit the hand and point to natural point of aim very well.

I do not ever recall asking for advice buying a handgun, but it was nice getting the input.

 

I have a S&W 5.7 and a RAI 22mag. While both are fun to shoot, I like the 5.7 more in every way. I bought it with the idea of adding a suppressor to it, so the threaded barrel and it being optic ready was a big plus.

 

I shoot both the 17 HMR and 17 WSM suppressed. They cannot be made very quiet because they are 2,500-3,000 fps. That said, it reduces the sound enough I feel OK shooting without hearing protection.

I decided against the 5.7 simply because I can load tiny bullets in the 38 Super and get into the 1,600 fps range and have lots more power at the impact. And the 9mm with 90 grain bullets is rated at 1,565 fps in a 5 inch barrel. So, lot of speed and very little recoil. And the 357 Sig is even faster, with those 90 grain bullets. So, that is why I did not go with the 5.7. Great idea, just too many other options that are lots cheaper to fire.

I do think I would like the RIA better, but that is a foolish opinion, I have not even shot either this one or one of the RIAs.

I will get to the range by Thursday and post results.

This one is optic ready by the way.

 

Good choice IMO . You can always get 22 mag ammo for a deal at Walmart

got a 5.7x28 just to play and test the boss tried it and took it she likes it. She also took my 22 mag Ruger auto

I am sure I will like it but I am thinking I would like the RIA 22 mag better. This one has tiny springs and such like all striker fired guns of which I have many. I am just thinking I would prefer the 1911 feel. On the other hand, it was easy to load those 30 round mags, that should be a lot of fun.

I have a supply of 22 mag, and it is available everywhere once again. As I said above I have a Yellow Boy, and Ruger Precision Rimfire and a Single 6 in 22 mag, to me they are a whole different animal that a 22.

I read a story about one of the writers who killed a cougar with a Winchester 9422M. In a 22 mag pistol with this barrel length the power is about the same as a 380. That said, 30 rounds of 380 is not a shabby amount of power. I will probably carry it as a sidearm next week deer hunting.

This gun weighs 22 ounces and 30 rounds of 22 Mag weighs 4.3 more, so 26.4 ounces total. Each additional 100 rounds only weigh 14.3 ounces, so this one should go in that survival bag. The gun fully loaded and 100 extra rounds is 40 ounces, the same as my empty 1911. Certainly not a primary, but a pretty good second one.

 

got a 5.7x28 just to play and test the boss tried it and took it she likes it. She also took my 22 mag Ruger auto

 

Good choice IMO . You can always get 22 mag ammo for a deal at Walmart

 

Well, I bought the 22 mag today. It came with 2 30 round mags and I bought 2 more. I loaded all 4 with different type of ammo. It is easy to load all 30 rounds by hand without a reloading tool, so that is a plus. I have never owned a Smith and Wesson Mand P. Fit and finish is great. Trigger pull about 6 pounds but much better than a Glock.Hope to shoot it on Thusrday, so we shall see.

 

I have a FN 5.7 and a Kel-Tec PMR 30. The 5.7 can be reloaded it is a ..."challenge". Tiny Case, chasing a tiny case at the range.... limited bullet choice 35gr-40gr. But, doable, especially if you have tiny hands or Grandchildren. The 22 WMR is ~$18/50 (the Hornady V-Max...just sweep up the brass and throw it away.
I think a 5.7 AR with a Brass catcher would be another option, if you went 5.7.

 

You seem to want the 5.7 so I'm sure you will buy one and make your own options .

But have you over looked the RIA 22TCM in a 17 round double stack 1911 that can exceed 2000fps and thats right at 400 ftlb energy and the sp can penetrate level 3A armor from a 5" barrel , not the shorter 22R version ether but the glock 17 kits for the 22tcmr9 will pass thru a level 3A vest and that bullets a HP but ria stopped selling these . The 22tcm 1911 is a full size double stack steel 1911 but they also make a 4.25: slide model so maybe there to heavy for you but recoil and ability to rack the slide is so soft and east plus you have a 1911 trigger . That can make the 5.7 triggers feel not so special !

The 22TCM 5" 1911 takes a 7lb recoil spring and 17lb main spring . I carpenter buddy bought one last year for no real reason other than to have one to play with and asked me to change to trigger to a short reach version . I had to shoot it some and found it a was not hardly any different from the ria 22mag for recoil and unlike some early version his has been very relaible and ammo today is 50 cent per round and reloadable too .

 

Are you planning on mounting an optic? I ask as YouTuber Honest Outlaw had reliability issues with the S&W 22 mag when he mounted an optic. He loves the S&W 5.7.

I don't have a ton of experience with either cartridge but I do have some time with both. All my 22 mag experience comes from a Ruger Revolver. In a gun that heavy the recoil is pretty low, but it sounds like it hits pretty hard downrange compared to 22 LR.

I also have a handful of rounds through the S&W 5.7, the Ruger 5.7, and the PSA rock. The S&W has a few advantages over the others: The slide racks very easily, the trigger is quite good, and the recoil is the lightest. The PSA can be had for $350 and has the most comfortable grip by far. I also think it is the best looking, the trigger is not bad, and it's still quite soft shooting. The Ruger is good but I personally think the PSA is better and it's cheaper, while the S&W is overall the best 5.7. That said, if I buy one I am going to get the PSA because I really like the grip better, I like the looks and all their color options, and 5.7 is just a range toy for me so the price factor is high.

 

There's no dilemma here. Get both pistols and have fun!

No need to thank me for my expert advice!

 

There's no dilemma here. Get both pistols and have fun!

No need to thank me for my expert advice!

That terrible advice. I was thinking the same thing. But I have another problem. I like the SW 5.7, it is threaded also, I like the new SW 22 mag, it is threaded also, but I also like the RIA since I looked one over this week. So, there is the dilemma. On the other hand, I have lots of guns that I never use, I could sell a few and have no new cash spent. There's a thought.

The problem with guns and some people, is they get addicted, makes it hard to decide.

The 5.7 with the American ammo is not impressive. For years the FN attraction was a firebreather with 2,200 or more fps with bullets as small as 27 grains. Some of them well over 400 fpe. We can all have opinions about what is better for this or that application. But we cannot argue that when you hit something with 400 fpe, there is a significant SPAT>

The best made in America is the Gold Dot, 288 fpe and most of them are about 240 fpe. A hot 38 Special Plus P will do that. I was just thinking the advertised faster rounds would be handy riding around on the 4x4 where I often see coyotes. They are pretty flat at 200 yards. That is rifle ballistics.

If I want 1600-1800 fps and little recoil. I can load my 38 Super with 90 grain bullets and get close. It has little recoil,very accurate, and I can load those cheap.

So, am leaning toward buying one of the22 mags for fun, probably the Smith and Wesson and then load my Super with some of those tiny bullets .Best of both worlds, sort of.

 

Here is another food for thought, I just received an email from SGAMMO and it is roughly the same price for 500 rounds of 5.7 as it is for 2000 rounds of 22 mag. That is a whole lot more time in the woods or the range.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

Thank you, that is important to know. That is good information because their cheapest 5.7 ammo is one I would use, it is 2,000 fps and 250 fpe stuff. Much better than the Federal and Fiocci and others. And some of that CCI ammo is only 26 cents per in the 2,000 round buy. It works great in my Ruger Precision so I think it would be fine in the pistol.

Their cheapest bulk in 5.7 in 91 cents per round. The FN 40 grain. Those are good ones, rated to 2,000 fps and over 250 foot pounds.

Their bulk 22 mag runs 28 to 30 cents per round. That is three times the cheapest 5.7.

Thanks for the post.

 

Have a Ruger 57 and have over a couple thousand rounds through it. I reload and have never had any issues with it. A good shooter and with the new Holosun Competition Red/Green dot it is probably going to be even more accurate.

 

Thank you. What ammo are you firing in it and do have you check the speed? And yes, I am not a dot fan, I have some and I think the 5.7 would be great with one. I like to shoot at coyotes with handguns, the dot would be great.

 

Ranger4 You seem well school in firearms and cartridge choices and after reading your reply's I have to look back at your opening tread and wonder why both asking folks here when you should be able to make up your own mind .

Now loading mags that a Uplula and even little old ladys and kids can find loading mags easy .
Any how Good Luck with Your choice .

 

Ranger4 You seem well school in firearms and cartridge choices and after reading your reply's I have to look back at your opening tread and wonder why both asking folks here when you should be able to make up your own mind .

Now loading mags that a Uplula and even little old ladys and kids can find loading mags easy .
Any how Good Luck with Your choice .

Actually, I was asking people who owned both their opinion of the two. I later posted the ammo problem, the militaryversion of the FN was blasting away with up to 450 fpe of energy. A 22 mag in a 1 7/8, 2 , 4 and 5.5 inch barrels I know a bit about, I have chronographed them. And I have a Ruger Precision rifle and a Golden Boy in 22 mag. and I know how effective the 22 mag is in long guns.

And as I started reading reviews, I saw that none of the ammo on the market was pushing a 40 grain bullet over 1 ,750 fps when I know the 22 mag pistols get close to 1,500 fps. And I asked if anyone had ever ran them over a chrono, because the ammo on the market for the 5.7 is so watered down, I have no interest. The 5.7 was marketed as a military grad screamer that was exceptionally fast and flat and some reports said would penetrate armor at 200 meters. I do know about ballistics. Anything at 1,650 like the Federal brand of the 5.7. And the claimed creme of the crop for defense, or maybe knocking down a coyote is the Speer, like this.

Speer 5.7X28 Hollow Points:
This table shows 40 Grain Speer Gold Dot self-defense rounds.

	Muzzle	50 YDS	100 YDS
Velocity (FPS)	1800	1510	1271
Energy (FT/LB)	288	203	144
Drop (Inch)	/	+0.1	-2.7

At 100 yards it is still flat, but it only has 144 foot pounds left. That is pretty lousy. Not even close to something that might penetrate a vest. I am retired military, I tend to worry about penetration. Here is what pistols do with bullets.

This chart gives an idea what to expect from a 22 or 22 mag handgun. The 5.7 starts at 288 with the gold dot and that is pretty good, about like a snub 38 Plus P. But no where close to what the original FN ammo will do.

So, the best defense ammo is 1800 fps and the best 22 mag is 1,400 fps both with 40 grain bullets. I have actually gotten more velocity with some of the 22 mag defense ammo which does not show up here, so basically the 5.7get 1,800 fps and the 22 mag gets 1500 fps from my personal testing.

So yes I know about calibers and such, but the 5.7has been advertised as a barn burner, the available ammo is not.

Anyway, I was asking for folks with actual experience, not the hype you get from people who sell you these things..

Anyway, that is my question, asking people who actually had them. And I got some great response. I really like the 5.7 in both the Ruger and Smith and Wesson gun, but all the hot ammo I saw in bulk is $1.10 per round or more. So, the 5.7 is losing my interest. I said at the outset that ammo cost was not the issue but if the cheapest full power ammo is $1.1 per round, that is a little much.

Just an opinion.

 

I just bought the new Smith M&P 22 magnum, run 120 rounds thru it. No problems, 30,33,40 grain with no issues. I also have the PMR30 that's a bit finicky. With lighter ammo.
I'll keep both, I've got plenty of 22 mag ammo.
The Smith is a nice piece.

 

I just bought the new Smith M&P 22 magnum, run 120 rounds thru it. No problems, 30,33,40 grain with no issues. I also have the PMR30 that's a bit finicky. With lighter ammo.
I'll keep both, I've got plenty of 22 mag ammo.
The Smith is a nice piece.

Thanks again. And I know it' kind of silly but I do like the idea of having 30 rounds in the gun. I am retired military. So, I think having too much ammo is an incorrect sentence. You cannot have too much ammo.

As an older guy with bad wrist and arms and all of that, I load 8-10 mags every time I make a range trip.I do not load mags at the range. I go there to shoot. So, 30 rounds in a gun sound great to me.