Really Barney??????

 

<<<=8)

 

According to "A Shop Manual .45 Auto Series Volume II Jerry Kuhnhausen" (Page 9)...that's what it says!



Barney

 

No way. The next thing you'll hear is that juke box companies made M1 carbines...

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

I wouldn't have believed it myself if it hadn't come from a known, credible source!



Barney

 

Interesting. I had to google this and read some interesting stuff on the history of Singer Sewing Machines and the other products they produced in WWI and WWII. Thanks for sharing this. I learned something today.

 

The smoothest and most reliable M-16 and 1911 I was ever issued were made by Singer.

My first M-16 was stamped General Motors.

Guess that jeans stress the "Ol" in Oldog.

One Zero

 

Singer probably did. Probably during the war years. During WWI. singer made machine guns and bullets. Like many companies, during WW! and WWII, they switched to making products for the war effort.

 

Singer made 500 1911s on an "educational order" issued before Pearl Harbor. When the war started, Singer passed their pistol tooling on to other contractors, most to Remington Rand. They turned to manufacturing artillery fire control directors which made better use of their precision capability than guns.

As you might expect, the Singer pistols that got out into the collector market are extremely valuable. I expect the next nice one to change hands will push a hundred grand.

 

Singer made 500 1911s on an "educational order" issued before Pearl Harbor. When the war started, Singer passed their pistol tooling on to other contractors, most to Remington Rand (bolded by me, not Jim Watson).

This is for Barney_Fife since I know Jim Watson knows, he just didn't specify it, but that's Remington Rand, the typewriter company and not Remington Arms the gun maker. Lots of manufacturers produced stuff you'd not expect them to produce.

 

Yes, Singer really did. They're worth a TON too. I believe they might be the most valuable production 1911s in existence.

 

I thought I saw one in a military museum. Where they belong. I thought it said "Singer" on the slide similar to the way RR's say "Remington Rand". But this was a while ago, before I cared about such things.

 

HA! That would be GREAT to see one turn up on the "Antiques Roadshow"!

Barney

 

Yes, Singer made M1911A1 pistols during WWII, as did other companies not in the arms business, such as Union Switch and Signal and Remington Rand- which had nothing to do with the arms manufacturer Remington. RR was a typewriter and business machine manufacturer, not a gun company.
During that war, pretty much 100% of the economy and manufacturing capacity was dedicated to military production.

 

The U.S. war machine in WWII was a phenomenal success! The amount of weaponry, ammo, vehicles, planes, ships, clothing, and every other manufactured item for war came directly from U.S. industrial might!

Unlike the recent Obamacare computer program... five hundred million for what? Four years and they couldn't get one program to work upon rollout!

WWII provided the U.S. economy the opportunity to recover from the desperate times of the Great Depression. The ability of the U.S. Industry to manufacture the vast amount of equipment and munitions was nothing short of a miracle and testament to the country, the managers and workers.

I've seen Singer 1911's. They'll last twenty plus generations if cared for well!

Easily!

 

And International Harvester, a tractor and truck company made M1 Garands. The government contracts stuff out to the strangest companies during war time.

OP, we understand your excitement but maybe you don't realize that Singer 1911's are common knowledge around here. It's old hat to us.

 

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/singer.htm

 

Look at the M1 carbine. A jukebox manufacturer and GM made very good examples.

 

And TRW, the automotive parts company, that also made satellites, built M-14s
And they were some of the best.

 

wcountryboy; it was the first, last and only time that the entirety of America came together for one unified purpose. The resulting practically unbelievable flood of troops and materiel emanating from our shores had never been seen in the world before and never will be seen again. When those people, who also lived through the Great Depression, came to known as 'The Greatest Generation' sixty years later, this term was accepted and became part of our culture. This same generation created the golden years of the '50s, after which they began to retire. Incidentally, that's just about when America started going to hell.

 

I was born during the Vietnam War. Maybe to take the place of one of those poor souls that never returned. I stop to listen to the National Anthem as well as watch Old Glory from time to time and it makes me think of all those that have died under it's colors. American pride is still strong though sometimes it is hard to see with all the fancy phones and bustling to and fro.

The only constant is time and given enough, anything will and usually does change. What surprises me most are the people that are content to live every day just like every other day. My dad who passed away just under a year ago lived like this. He hated change and would not do any thing different. He would complain about any changes in his environment. He seemed miserable all the time and it was like this for many years.

Guess what I am saying is I try not to relive the past and find something new to try all the time.

Oh, and yes, I have heard of the 1911's made by Singer along time ago and hear they are valuable and in high demand with collectors. If you come across one in any any condition is like finding leprechaun gold.

 

Didn't Singer make M1 carbines?

 

They were a sub contractor that made M1 carbine receivers for Underwood Typewriter who made and assembled the rest of the gun.

Royal Typewriter made BARS
Smith Corona Business machines made 1903 Springfield rifles
Rockola Jukebox made carbines
IBM made carbines

Saginaw Steering Gear (a division of GM) made carbines and I think 1919 30cal machine guns.

Eddystone 1917 rifles in WWI were made by Remington at the old Baldwin Locomotive works plant

Larry Ruth's book War Baby vol 1 is a great read on how the government pretty much took over manufacturing. They decided who got milling machines, lathes, etc, as well as who got raw materials. It was pretty communistic but everybody in the country was on board and ok with it.

 

Amercian acceptance of the WWII economic conversion....

What I find phenomenal is that people accepted and tolerated the complete conversion to a wartime economy, and the sacrifices that came with it.

It is not hard to believe since many Americans were totally outraged by the devastation of the attack on Pearl Harbor, which catapulted us into WWII.
If we had not entered WWII, it is quite possible the Brits would now be speaking German....!

 

It is not hard to believe since many Americans were totally outraged by the devastation of the attack on Pearl Harbor, which catapulted us into WWII.

Most Americans were outraged by the 9/11 attacks as well. Had the US gone to a total war footing then, I don't believe the population would have been so accepting of the sacrifices required. The vast majority has never known a time of severe deprivation and hardship, unlike those coming out of the Depression. The gas crunches of the 70s and the recent tough economy pale in comparison.

How long would people tolerate the lack of luxuries that even the "poor" have enjoyed for the last 20+ years. 100% of industry dedicated to the war effort, no computers or cell phones (no guns and ammo for the likes of us), no buying a new car or house, watering down milk to feed your children, meats, vegetables, flour, sugar, butter limited to a few pounds a month, gasoline and coal severely limited- when its gone, there is NO more until next month when your ration books come, regardless of how much cash you have.

As Saxman said, nothing like it had happened before or since; fortunately, the Greatest Generation was well prepared for such hardship by a decade of economic depression.

 

When you have to learn to do something with nothing it stays with you all your life,evan in times of plenty you always try to find a cheaper/better way to diy so you have enough to eat or a place to sleep or your family is taken care of .Total war requires total cooperation .

 

I think the word resolve would be a good way to describe that era. They had just barely gotten out of the depression. Then WW2 started, and the US being bombed gave the citizenship the resolve to not be defeated by anyone. Win at all costs no sacrifice was too much.

Now any Sacrifice is too much.

 

I knew Singer made 1911s, but I did not know they were that rare or valuable.

 

Barney, good job on reading the Jerry K book (books) on 1911s if 1911 hold your interest. Perhaps even better;....joining this forum.

Depending on how "anti" your school is, you may not want to be on campus with one of the books. They have the word PISTOL in the title.
If that is seen by the wrong people they may start screaming, lift their skirts, and cause a panic or "shut down".

I fully understand your excitement about the "Singer" 1911s. As stated, maybe the 500 best fitted of all the suppliers. Certainly the most expensive to buy today.
I first found out about them in the 1960s when reading about the five design changes that added A 1 to the 1911 designation. There were more changes involved, but the main five published.

The "Union Switch & Signal"; (Swissvale Pa.roll-marked I think) are no "easy-cheese" to find either. I have never seen a Singer, but have handled a U S & S.

If you get started young enough you MIGHT learn all there is to know about the 1911.
But;.......nobody else ever has.

 

Depending on how "anti" your school is, you may not want to be on campus with one of the books. They have the word PISTOL in the title. If that is seen by the wrong people they may start screaming, lift their skirts, and cause a panic or "shut down".

Potrillo - that's funny you mention how "anti" our school is..

After the recent Oregon shootings, one of the faculty got on their "OMG...we need to confiscate all guns in order to stay safe on campus" e-mail rant to ALL of the College. The conversations that followed were some of the most asinine arguments by the (what I call) "Nutter Liberals" I think I've ever heard. And then our pinhead Governor, Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown signed the new law outlawing firearms on campus in almost all cases, so now we really are defenseless.

Yesterday, the College President said we'll have a "meeting" to discuss campus security that the entire faculty and staff are invited to attend and discuss next week.

That ought to be entertaining...let the games begin!



Barney

 

As a product of the " Greatest Generation" there were some sacrifices made but in reality WWII was a boon to most American's it took most the populace from object poverty to a livable shot at survival, and a better life.

The sacrifice's made by those that were in Combat to "save the world" from the axis powers were well documented, but gains made by rest were kind of hidden.

I'm sure not knocking those that went to no job to working there collective butts off to support the "war effort" but facts are facts that war took us out of a severely depressed economy to a better place for most.

Unfortunately a portion of society did not continue to thrive but regressed into a welfare state and that that has and continues to effect us all.

As for the question will today's society have enough reason to become a cohesive group if our way of life is threatened, I would not only hope but think that today's generation would get out from the computer screen's and get down to the ugly business that's needed to
"support and defend".

That would include the sacrifices to support that effort.

 

I think the opposite. While we did not get as high of a percentage to join after 9/11 as we did after pearl Harbor, we got enough to join that the military was able to turn people away. They were supported very well. Thank God we no longer have to make beach landings.

Compare the way Veterans are treated now to how they were treated when they returned from Vietnam.

 

WWII brought out the very best in American companies for the war effort. And it was the private sector who really allocated its own resources ideally. The U.S. government war production bureaucracy nearly cost us the war early on, because of their demands to control the economy.

Both of my parents, and my grandfather worked in furniture and wood manufacturing. The Mengel Company switched from pure furniture manufacturing, to making cots, portable desks, and ship-board furniture. My grandfather's company, Gamble Brothers, made laminated wood products for further manufacture, and produced thousands of life raft paddles.

Because Louisville's Standiford Field had adjacent unused acreage, Curtiss Aviation built a plant that produced the C-46 Dakota.

Ford Motor Company built the Willow Run plant and became the most prolific producer of the B24 Liberator.

The M1 Carbine was indeed a diversely produced weapon. This link shows the total production by manufacturer. IBM and GM Inland Division in Dayton, Ohio were among them.

http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/manufacturers.html

 

Do you actually believe the the attack on Pearl was a "tactical surprise"? Back to the subject - the 1911s made by Singer were some of the finest examples ever made at that time. If you can mass produce something as complex as a sewing machine - a 1911 is child's play. Do some Googling on the market prices.