The only weapon that I have ever had an "ND" was a Taurus .22lr Revolver in 1980. Not actually a Negligent Discharge, but a Fool of a Gunsmyth (Yes Spelled Correctly)... That is the Texas Term for a Shadetree Gun "Smith". He had worked on an old.22lr Revolver( when the Hammer Blocks were instituted), and the Dipsh*t removed the hammer block for whatever reason... He brought it into the shop and laid it on the counter. After conversing for a few minutes he went to scoop up the Revolver and it fell to the Hardwood floor and Promptly discharged into the Ceiling Tiles... The rest of the afternoon was cleaning Underwear...luckily it just punched a hole in the Roof, instead of one of the Other customers in the shop.

 

Thanks for your input...but I'm only looking for incidents with 1911s...

One of the reasons I'm asking is that there is a poster on another forum that said one of his neighbors dropped his 1911 and killed his dog....somehow very doubtful.

Bob

 

Like I said only ND I've had in 40+ years of smithing has been a Cheap Revolver that Others had "massaged" I've Never Had a 1911 ever discharge by dropping... Though I do try Not to. I've dropped my Commander from Saddleback at a Full Gallop, only scared the Front Bushing and Barrel muzzle. unless it was a Prewar 1911 I am like you. I Doubt it. But as Sherlock said, "Unless it is ABSOLUTELY Impossible, no Matter how small the Chance, it could be Possible".

 

From what I have read a stock pre-firing pin lock 1911 will fire when dropped muzzle down from a height of at least 13 feet onto a very hard surface, like a concrete floor or steel deck. The military researched this way back when. When this happens the bullet goes down into the deck and the gun goes flying. Unless it strikes pretty much straight down on the muzzle it won't go bang. There would of course be some flying bullet fragments and what not, but such a thing is not usually hazardous to people. Startling and irritating, but not directly hazardous.

 

I can't dispute a 70 series possibly going off when dropped, but I think if it were a real problem, there would be no 70 series sold today for liability issues.

 

I've carried a 70's series 1911 in both 9mm and 45ACP for 4 decades. I have dropped one once when my holster came apart. It just fell on the ground and I said "well sh*t, would ya look at that". I have NEVER even heard of a 1911 going off when dropped.

 

Was wondering if anyone here has either had or knows of a DOCUMENTED case of a 1911 going off when dropped.

I can't help you with that, but if you're looking for data points, here is the Drake Oldham 1911 drop test information

Drop Test Results

1911 Archive

dave2.freeshell.org

 

If Commiefornia hasn't been able to get one to fire in their drop tests so they can ban them, I would say it is as near to impossible as you can find. ANYTHING is possible of course. If someone told me five years ago that a senile, incompetent, racist moron who spend 49 years in gov't and only had three minor bills to his credit, would run for prez, with a female who hates him, and whose only qualification was sleeping her way to the top, and win, I would have had serious doubt about them too.

 

Good on you about the Commiefornie info,.... but, bad on you about thinking Butthead and his cohort actually won the election.

Oh, and you forgot, child molseter, in his list qualifying political attributes!

 

I cannot document this, but I was discussing this last year with my friends. One of them showed me picture of the hole in his floor done by his 1911 (series 70) [sorry I cannot recall the manufacturer].
He dropped it after drawing and the pistol landed muzzle down. The guess was that the firing pin inertia caused negligent discharge.

All this can be prevented with adjusting firing pin weight and spring... but in modern 1911/2011 pistols it has been already done.

 

If I remember correctly Gunblue stated in one of his videos that as a MP, he tossed his holster rig into his jeep and it went off.
Starts @ 23:35

 

Nope, never heard of one with a 1911. But, I also don't have a problem with series 80 trigger systems that block the firing pin, so all of my Colt 1911s are Series 80 with the exception of my Colt Competition that came with a Series 70. Colt must have thought there was some reason to create the 80 series.

Most of the NDs that I've heard of were Glocks and those had more to do with finger on the trigger while holstering. I assume that if you carried with the safety off, you could do the same with a 1911.

 

Colt must have thought there was some reason to create the 80 series.

...and the Swartz firing pin safety in the 1930's

 

I had a ND with a Springfield Armory 1911. The hammer was actually in the half cock position, and it fell when the trigger was pulled.
No casualties, or injuries, thankfully! It was pointed down range at a shooting range. Nobody, or anything damaged, except a dirt berm.
Needless to say I sold it to a knowledgeable gun smith.

Hawk

 

I had a ND with a Springfield Armory 1911. The hammer was actually in the half cock position, and it fell when the trigger was pulled.
No casualties, or injuries, thankfully! It was pointed down range at a shooting range. Nobody, or anything damaged, except a dirt berm.
Needless to say I sold it to a knowledgeable gun smith.

Hawk

..that's an easy one...the half-cock notch on the hammer had broken. All the gun needed was a new hammer.

Thanks for all the replies....

Bob

 

Since the thread has begun mentions of FPSs, I'll pitch in on the S&W version. The S&W FPS is disengaged by the grip safety; so no impact on trigger press. Using a SW1911as my EDC, I appreciate a FPS that has no effect on the trigger and none on dis/assembly*.

*- The Swartz FPS, present in a Kimber and a Taurus, often catches me by surprise during assembly.

 

*- The Swartz FPS, present in a Kimber and a Taurus, often catches me by surprise during assembly.

I don't know for sure, but I think Taurus uses a Colt Series 80 style firing pin safety.

 

Here you go. Documented case of a Colt 80 Series going off because of the magnetic field from an MRI.

Spontaneous Discharge of a Firearm in an MR Imaging Environment : American Journal of Roentgenology : Vol. 178, No. 5 (AJR)

 

Wow! Thank you for posting.

 

Sounds like a phishing expedition to me .

 

During my lifetime, I’ve read of two or three accounts, but sorry, no link to offer.

But let’s be realistic about any such discharges, including absurdly unrealistic “testing”….I.e., if someone monkeys around with a 1911, altering original specs, springs, hammer-sear fitting, etc., and/or constructing special testing rigs to create “laboratory“ impact speeds and point of impact, it’s obviously possible for someone to “construct” a discharge.

But it doesn’t happen in the real world with a decent, unaltered 1911 and FP spring in good condition.

 

I would wager the reason it doesn't happen often in real world scenarios is two fold. First being the use of lighter weight titanium pins that make it more difficult to generate enough force to touch off a primer without a proper hammer strike, and second the weapon has to come down more or less right on the nose of the muzzle. It's not outside the realm of possibility that it could happen, but there are also a thousand other ways for a dropped gun to hit the ground. My wild guess (which I don't particularly wish to test for obvious reasons) is the weight/balance of a loaded 1911 is primarily toward the grip area and more often than not a dropped pistol is going to want to fall and strike the ground grip first.

 

The CZ drop incident was most likely an aftermarket extended length firing pin. I don't get why people run those instead of choosing better primers.

 

Most people don’t drop their 1911s on concrete, tile, etc., surfaces…which straightaways eliminates even any theoretical risks.

Ti firing pins might be close to standard in CA (although the various other mechanisms are alternately used) and have application elsewhere. But an extra-strong FP spring has the same approximate effect with a steel FP. As a mostly Wilson customer, that’s how most of my 1911s are set-up.

 

one law to follow Murphy's law if it could happen it will at the most worst time.

 

Since this thread is about 1911 discharges, I have only one experience in 15 years in the range business. We had one "customer" come in. The man was infatuated with himself, and carried toiletries in firearms bag. My staff would damn near crap their pants laughing at the guy, who'd come in on a Friday night or Saturday afternoon or night, and actually - while on the range time clock - take a break in the men's room and have a shave. I won't go into more about his appearance other than to say he mostly wore tank style undershirts and was known to carry a lot of gold around his neck. One Saturday night, he comes out of the men's room carrying his stainless Delta Elite and also slapping his face with some sort of aftershave foo-foo. I say foo-foo because I got a full beard, don't shave, and his tonic permeated every nook and cranny of the showroom/shop. I was there. But I didn't actually "see" it happen. I heard the bang, I ran over, his Delta was on the floor, he was looking stupidly bewildered. My range hand said he was putting on aftershave and switching the gun from hand to hand, and that he (my employee) was yelling at him to put the gun down, back in the bag. I don't know what exactly happened. There was a hole in the wall where the bullet ricocheted off the floor and into the paneling. Cement behind it stopped the bullet. Frankly I was pissed, and tossed him out on his ass. He didn't even have to pay, I just wanted him GONE.

We did have several accidents with Glocks, all where some doofus was trying to put a loaded Glock back inside the Glock plastic container - where it says, hey doofus, don't put a loaded gun in here, it ain't safe. One was a guy who managed to get the lid on and the Glock discharged blowing off the end of one of his fingers. One was a local LEO who put the Glock (in the case) in his trunk (not a patrol car), slammed the trunk, and got a 9mm round about an inch from his left nut. Literally. Hit and went thru his thigh in that flabby next to yer ball-sack area. There was another with a Glock, I don't remember the details, but the guy had just paid and left, and <bang> a moment later, and he came in saying he shot himself. He got a big trash bag to put his leg into and a whole pack of foldup paper towels to help stop the bleeding till the medics arrived.

There was also a guy who shot the transmission on his 'vette, while waiting for safety class to admit folks into the classroom. He took off, but the word from his buddies made it back to us, and he basically knocked a chunk of transmission case out. I don't remember what he was shooting.

And that's all I can remember, except one sole suicide. Sad. That one haunts me.

 

^^^
As Yogi Berra once said “you can see a lot just by observing”.

Thanks for sharing. +1911

 

Can a 1911 fire if you drop it from sufficient distance or discharge from hitting a MRI core from halfway across the room? Sure, don't drop it from sufficient distances and don't subject it to MRI cores that are powered up...no mechanical safety is failure-proof, so use prudent discretion in firearms handling. Simple.

 

I can tell you that I bought several USGI pistols over the years that happened to have dead firing pin springs inside. They were fully compressed and limp as a noodle. That likely explains why the military had a lot of problems with dropped-gun discharges. If the firing pin spring is totally kaput nothing is going to stop the firing pin from jumping forward and hitting the primer.

 

Folks always talk "lawyers" about the various firing pin safeties, but my guess it the military legitimately had issues with dropped gun discharges and that's why Colt came up with the Swartz firing pin safety in the 1930's, a time when liability law suits probably weren't a significant issue. In addition, the US was a revolver world then, and most 1911's were probably in use by government agencies and government employees weren't suing anybody.

 

I saw a Clint Smith interview where he talked about dropping one of his 1911s muzzle down and it going off. First occurrence of that I had ever heard of.

 

A sailor was killed on a U.S. Navy ship, in the early part of the 20th century, when a M1911 was dropped, and the gun discharged. A thorough investigation ensued, but don't know if it's possible to dig up the report, today?
As I recall, it was decided the gun would have to be dropped, from a height of twenty feet onto concrete, to cause the gun to discharge (very much at odds with anecdotal stories of guns discharging when dropped from waist height).

I spent some time in the shop of a gunsmith who'd decided to do a 1911 drop test, chambering a primed case, and no matter how the gun was oriented when dropped, he couldn't get it to land on the muzzle.

I've always wondered if a full-length guide rod contributes to muzzle-drop discharges, as it prevents the barrel and slide from "recoiling" from the impact, and transferring all of the energy to the firing pin? Of course, it would require the safety to be disengaged, to make any difference.

 

A regular contributor to SWAT Magazine and SWAT officer himself was killed some 10 years ago when his 1903 fell on the floor and discharged. It didn't escape me that this thread is about 1911 but from a standpoint of drop safety mechanism, or lack thereof, 1903 is not a whole lot different than series 70.

 

Without specifics - names and firsthand testimony - this is just another "self-licking ice cream cone" discussion. "I heard from a guy about another guy who told him about..."

 

Well, if you insist

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