Why did you swap out the spring in the first place?

Conventional Wisdom sez: Use the lightest spring that affords consistently reliable function.

 

After experimenting around, I've found 18.5 to be the best all round weight.

 

That's way too heavy for normal .45 loads. 16 lbs is standard factory weight, although I thought Gold Cups might come with a lighter weight for target loads (someone with a Gold Cup can verify that).

 

The GI blueprint spec for recoil springs (although spoken in spring diameter and coil count) is closer to 14 #
Joe

 

Gold Cups used to come with two springs - the standard 16lb full power .45ACP and a "softball" lighter wadcutter spring - I believe it was 14lb.

However, 18lb is currently the most popular among custom makers and as a standard replacement for regular loads - twenty is just a little too much, the gun can be battered by the spring closing too hard just as it can be by not using enough spring for the load. CC

 

Recoil spring wt

Standard recoil spring weight for the 230gr ball ammo is 16lbs. 9mm is 14#, while the .40S&W round is 19#.

However, the load you shoot also determines the spring you may want to use on a regular basis. If you shoot pretty stout .45acp, such as GI hardball ammo, you want to determine how far the case is ejecting from the gun. Usually, a gun that ejects the case from 3-6 feet is a good indication of the proper recoil spring weight. Since every gun locks up differently, the best indicator is start with a factory spring, and if the empty case is flying over 6-8 feet away, a heavier spring may be needed. If the case barely clears the ejection port or falls within 1-2 feet, the recoil spring is too heavy for that load.

 

Standard recoil spring weight for the 230gr ball ammo is 16lbs. 9mm is 14#, while the .40S&W round is 19#.

However, the load you shoot also determines the spring you may want to use on a regular basis. If you shoot pretty stout .45acp, such as GI hardball ammo, you want to determine how far the case is ejecting from the gun. Usually, a gun that ejects the case from 3-6 feet is a good indication of the proper recoil spring weight. Since every gun locks up differently, the best indicator is start with a factory spring, and if the empty case is flying over 6-8 feet away, a heavier spring may be needed. If the case barely clears the ejection port or falls within 1-2 feet, the recoil spring is too heavy for that load.

Thanks for this advice. I was actually going to post this very question and saw someone beat me to the punch.

 

Ok, good advice. I was planning to shoot 45acp +P, & that's why I switched. But the 18.5 spring seems better. Thanks.

 

I run 18.5 in all my 5 inch 1911s never have any problems !

 

It all depends on the ammo used. There is no magic number.

 

I agree that there is no magic number. However, I know of a formula that will provide a magic number for those people who believe in magic.:biglaugh:

Divide 230 by the weight of the bullet that you are using. Then multiply that by .02

For example, if I am firing a 185 grain bullet at 950 FPS, 185 divided by 230 = 0.8043, and multiplied by 950 FPS is 764. 764 x .02 = 15.28. So in this case, the normal #16 spring is adequate.

This is only a suggestion however, it usually gives you a slightly heavier spring weight than I like to run, and I do agree that actual shooting experience, and observing ejection patterns is the way to select a spring weight for your individual gun. This formula is only intended to help save you time selecting a spring.

 

"...............Divide 230 by the weight of the bullet that you are using. Then multiply that by .02............."

Shouldn't that be "Divide the weight of the bullet (185 gr.) by 230" as shown in the example?

 

Heh. 18.5 is going to have to be good enough.

My results come up to 19 pounds.

Other ammunition speeds are vary so I would have to consider those too.

 

The spec spring weight for a 5" 45ACP is 13.5LB

The only reason why modern springs are stronger is because the new manufactures needs SOME reason so close the slide..... scary...

Rgds
Eric

 

I could be incorrect, but I would think that it is the "spring rate = 2.88 lb. per inch, or, 2.88 X 6.55" free length, or 18.864.

 

Hello again,

I thought that a Colt Gold Cup used 16lb and 13lb springs....the 13lb spring is used with anemic 180-200gr target ammo....the 16lb is use for 230gr ammo...

Rgds
Eric

 

I don't remember the government model .45 having a 13 lb spring?
Or have I just forgotten?

 

Hello again,

BTW, I use a 14-lb recoil spring in all of my 1911s and typically outshoot everyone at the range.


Rgds
Eric

 

BTW X 2:
I also use a 14 lb spring in all of my .45's, but that is because they are set up for light target loads, and I am the worst shot at the range, all of which has nothing to do with shooting skill. I'm not questioning your shooting skill. Has to do with what spring rate was issued in the government model .45 auto. And I don't believe it was a 13 lb spring. And service target loads were not a lot lighter than standard ball ammo.

 

What you showed in your example is just the opposite of what you posted. You stated one thing but did the opposite.

Tomorrow, when I am sober, I will attempt to correct any errors I made. As I said, I am not a mathematician. I know how to figure the numbers I want, but I can't always communicate this to others.

Bullet weight and velocity determine slide velocity. Slide velocity determines necessary spring weight. Slide/barrel weight affect slide velocity.

Then you have to consider the weight of the powder charge.

No wonder I get confused.

Anyway, what I posted, will get you into the ball park, if you correct it for obvious mistakes.

Like Edison said, "If I need a mathematician, I will hire one".

 

Not necessary, dude, I am sure that you need more SMSW, not less.
Don't mind me, dude, I am also enjoying my 1 a night SMSW. Cheers.

 

Recoil spring weight

I was surprised the military spec of the .45 5" barreled gun is 13.5 lbs. This contradicts the Wolff Spring website, that shows the factory rated spring weights of many 1911 guns. Their website shows the 45acp using full loads is rated for 16lbs.

I am sure a .45 using military hardball ammo will work with a 14lb. spring, but the matter of slide velocity and ejection pattern should be considered for every individual gun. Some may work fine with a 14lb. spring, while others may need a stronger spring.

The other issue is the main spring weight. A 13.5# recoil spring weight may work fine with a 23# mainspring. What is the military spec rate of the mainspring?

 

Springs

I have no idea why some modern gun makers go to VERY stiff springs. I have two semi-custom 1911's that after thousands of rounds. I must still cock the hammer to rack. They feel like a bazzillion pound springs. I also have full custom that I can rack easily. All have been 100% pistols, all have fired thousands of rounds with no real discernable wear, except for the finish. I prefer the lighter spring.

 

I have no idea why some modern gun makers go to VERY stiff springs.

I prefer the lighter spring.

They do it to cover up FTF symptoms so owners don't complain as much. There are lots of reasons for a 1911 to FTF/FTRB. A stronger recoil spring masks the symptoms. Happier shooters result. What it doesn't do is spare the frame, barrel feet and the slide stop.

BTW I really don't care how far my brass goes as long as it gets out of the gun.
Joe

 

Oops, Ok, my bad on the spring weight, but somewhere I thought that the military issue .45 was with a 18 lb. spring.
I like a light spring too, and have all or most of my .45's sprung with a 14 lb spring, but I load 3.5 grs. of B/E behind a 180 gr. which produces a very light target load. It would seem to me that a 14 lb spring using military, or even commercial 230 hardball is going to slam the slide pretty bad unless the mainspring is very stout. Just my opinion. And that drawing shown is for a National Match, which might use a reduced power spring, IDK.

 

I had always heard that 16 pound recoil and 23 pound mainspring was the correct combo. You could vary it buy using a heavier recoil spring and lighter mainspring. My Les Baer has a 18# variable recoil spring 21# mainspring.

 

The "hammer down" is retarding the initial movement of the slide.
A stock 23# spring assists in keeping the slide locked into battery just a nano second longer than the 19#, and minimally affects the point of aim. BION.

Once the hammer cocks and the main spring pressure is released,
then the recoil spring continues compressing, getting stronger as it compresses.

Experience has taught me to choose recoil springs by brass landings as mentioned above.

I have never had any problem with the shock buffers.

Also I will say this....
My 1911 carry guns and my target guns are tuned differently even using the same loads. Mainly because I want my carry gun to cycle 100% with ANY load in ANY conditions. period.

Please allow me to clarify:
My carry gun is sprung for std 230 loads. When I might shoot a few 185+Ps I couldn't care less if the brass goes too far.

 

"I was planning to shoot 45acp +P, & that's why I switched. But the 18.5 spring seems better. Thanks. "
__________________
Excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand why someone would fire +P ammunition in a Gold Cup...

I'm not trying to be sarcastic; I have always thought of the Gold Cup as a target pistol.

Thanks to all who posted here for an informative discussion of recoil spring selection! (trying to get the thread back on topic!)

 

I learned the hard way, and the expensive way, how critical it is to match springs to each other AND to the ammo.

I thought my gun was having problems. I had accidentally installed a variable spring, which is designed to release lockup earlier. When shooting +p, I was getting all kinds of slide-over malfunctions.

By the time I figured out what was going on, I had gone through nearly $100 of my precious SD ammo.

17 lb is perfect for my 5in for standard loads. But since I carry plus p, I go 18.5. However, please note, this is a trial/error case by case situation. You have to try some springs with your carry ammo.

Range use is of course different.

Also, do some reading on how the springs work together-- trigger, mainspring, FP spring, etc.

 

Sorry, to ask a Dumb Question but, will a 18ib spring hurt the life of shooting a 1911-A1 in beating it up?

 

No.
16 lbs is standard on the 45 acp.
If it throws the brass more than 6 ft or so,
change the recoil spring to one that is 2 lbs stronger.
Stronger spring shortens the distance of the brass throw.
How far the brass is going is a good indicator of what spring you need.

Buy Wolff springs only, and definitely use their included firing pin spring.

I also prefer a stock hammer spring (retards the slide) and the "rubber" shock buffers with the recoil springs. Never had a problem with buffers, and they prevent metal to metal contact of the frame/slide.

Stronger recoil springs might require better magazine springs. I use Chip McCormick Shooting Star mags exclusively.

Had a bad experience with Wilson's mags that wouldn't feed, and they told me to cut off one coil. DUH.

I couldn't guess how many thousand rounds of 45 acp I have shot in the last 30 years.

 

The government spring spec. is 13.55 lbs @ 1.81". Wolff rates their springs at the length with the slide fully retracted. That is about 1.60" according to the nominal dimensions on the government drawings. So using 2.88 lbs/in the additional 0.21" compression results in 14.15 lbs at full slide recoil.

I'm not traying to say what is right or wrong, just looking at the numbers.

I normally just divide the power factor by 12 to find a recoil spring to start with.

230 grain ball: power factor about 195/12=16.25 lb spring.
USPSA major: power factor 165/12=13.75 lb. spring.

For more than 20 years this has worked for me.

 

I like the folks at Wolff Gunsprings. I use their products exclusively.
But I disagree with determining proper recoil spring weight based on distance of ejected cases.
Too many variables. Such as extractor tension and ejector length/profile.
My pistols toss empties well over 12ft. and they are properly sprung.