Been carrying a 1911 of one flavor or another now since 1965. Carried and used it in RVN, been carrying in The World ever since. Being a student of the teachings of Col. Jeff Cooper also, I offer this:



'Nuff said?

 

Been carrying a 1911 of one flavor or another now since 1965. Carried and used it in RVN, been carrying in The World ever since. Being a student of the teachings of Col. Jeff Cooper also, I offer this:



'Nuff said?

Hey Rick --
What is the designation for the red & yellow, eagle carrying a carbine you show. The officer who swore me in to the Army on Valentine's Day, 1955 wore that patch on his right shoulder. Obviously he was a combat vet of either Korea or WW II or both. Ed

 

If your weapon is not ready to use, it's a paperweight.

 

I wonder how many times this subject has been discussed since the inception of this forum?

 

Probably more than 1,911 times

 

The 1911 provides options. You can choose whatever you prefer and works for you.

I prefer Condition 1, Cocked and Locked. However, I can probably come up with a scenario where Condition 3, hammer down, chamber empty, could be useful. I have yet to think of a scenario where I'd prefer Condition 2, hammer down on a live round.

For those new to the 1911, and may not have made up their mind yet, this may be a helpful video.

 

I have yet to think of a scenario where I'd prefer Condition 2, hammer down on a live round.

The chief problem with hammer down on a loaded round is the risk you take getting it to this state.
While there are guns with 'decockers' the 1911 is not one.
You have to pull the trigger and control the hammer to prevent firing.

 

There might be a few here who haven't heard this old story:

The Texas Rangers have a very long tradition as a law enforcement agency and the 1911 pistol has been a big part of that. The 1911 is, even today, approved for carry and considered a trademark of the Rangers. As the old (true or not) story goes, a Ranger on the street was approached by a lady who pointed to the cocked-and-locked 1911 pistol in his holster and asked, "Isn't that dangerous?"

The Ranger replied, "Maam, I wouldn't carry the son-of-a-bitch if it wasn't dangerous!"

 

Some would even tie a piece of rawhide around the grip to keep the grip safety engaged.

 

I can only speak for 1911s. Condition One always.

I learned that hard way one day in a local convenience store that a pistol not in condition one is worthless. An argument erupted at the cashier. I was back behind the hot dog machine but in perfect position if this went bad. The only problem was my gun was in condition three (chamber empty loaded mag). That was when I realized that if I cocked my gun all the attention would be on me and I would completely lose my element of surprise which is key in these situations. Lucky for me the argument never got bad enough to deploy my pistol, thank God. It was bad enough that my pistol was out in a low ready position. From that day forward I am always cocked and locked.

 

I can only speak for 1911s. Condition One always.

I learned that hard way one day in a local convenience store that a pistol not in condition one is worthless. An argument erupted at the cashier. I was back behind the hot dog machine but in perfect position of this went bad. The only problem was my gun was in condition three (chamber empty loaded mag). That was when I realized that if I cocked my gun all the attention would be on me and I would completely lose my element of surprise which is key in these situations. Lucky for me the argument never got bad enough to deploy my pistol, thank God. From that day forward I am always cocked and locked.

Some people go Condition 3 for the same reason they "rack" a shotgun. Basically they want to scare away a threat.

 

Bottom line, determine the way you feel the safest and most comfortable, and practice/train over and over and over. Don't conform to another individual's carry method if it is in contrast to your comfort level. Carrying a 1911 condition 1 is not for the novice. Practice.

Just because condition 1 is safer than say, a loaded Glock, doesn't negate the fact one may feel unsafe with a cocked and locked 1911. In fact, the 1911 might not the right choice for that person.

 

Bottom line is I've never put much faith in feelings. There is a correct way to do everything. Your comfort feelings have nothing to do with right or wrong. By the way, cocked and "locked" is the correct way for even a glock. Feelings may determine if you do it, but has nothing to do with being correct or not.

 

If prepared to respond to a thug assault, there’s only one way.

If other reasons, there’s the C-3 alternative.

 

 

I don't know anybody personally that currently carries any handgun with an empty chamber.

 

Are you familiar with the Colt SAA?

 

I may be in the minority but if I go to all the trouble to put on a holster and take a really nice handgun out of my safe grab an extra magazine, just in case. If I am going to all that effort the gun is dammed sure gonna be ready to go if I need it. Like I said it may just me, but I doubt it

 

It's not just you Mike.

 

Most, but not all, of my firearms in the gunsafe are empty.

They're ALL treated as if they're loaded.

If they don't need to be ready to "Honor A Threat", then they may not have a clip, magazine or loaded cylinder.

If I'm carrying it, it's loaded, cocked and locked, because you cannot "Honor A Threat" with an unloaded firearm.

In order for my 1911 to fire in Condition 1, I have to remove it from the holster, hold it in my hand in order to disengage the grip safety, thumb off the thumb safety, put my finger on the trigger and pull it.

I've regularly carried a 1911 for about 10 years now.

Not once has one gone off unless I made it.

So I have Faith that it's "Safe".

Oh, and since I frequently use the analogy that firearms are like fire extinguishers?

I always have a fire extinguisher close at hand, it's always fully charged, armed, and ready to go.

All I have to do is pull the safety pin, point it, and pull the trigger to Honor The Threat.

 

I carried a 5" gov't model Colt personally & professionally for 25 years. It was always "cocked & locked."

 

I carry empty chamber, hammer down, empty mag with 1 bullet in my shirt pocket. May not work for everybody.

Barney F.

 

This argument will never end.

 

Think of the Tueller drill.

Carry the gun in any condition you want that you can deploy it and get a shot off in 1.5 seconds.

 

There is a vid on you-tube that I like to show people who favor empty chambers. A crook walks into a (I'm going to say what looks like a convenience store to me) business and pulls a gun on the cashier. The store owner off to the side goes for his concealed handgun, and is leaping, twisting, hopping, and flopping around like a fish out of water trying to get the pistol out of the pocket/holster/where-ever/whatever, while the crook just stands there, watching this for what seems like 90 seconds. When the idiot FINALLY gets the gun out, yup, you guessed it, no round chambered! So the idiot is flopping and hopping around trying to get the slide back. Oh, yeah, the safety is on! So he has to take the safety off to rack the slide! FINALLY, and yes, I do mean FINALLY!!, the idiot gets the round chambered, and then the crook calmly shoots the idiot owner, picks up the bag of money the cashier put on the counter (and then dived under the counter, not being an idiot), and walks out.

Even the Pedo Joe supporters on this site should be able to spot one or two, possibly three, maybe four, no more than five, six at the outside, seven at the most, if watching carefully, eight,... well anyway, several things that poor sap store owner did wrong.

 

Condition 0, at home unloaded, locked in the safe
Condition 1, hammer down on an empty chamber
Condition 2, hammer down on a live round in the chamber
Condition 3, cocked and locked

Not sure there's a real question here if I'm carrying it for protection.

Grumpy

 

I think your grade is 20% - not passing.

 

Do we really have to discuss this again? What is the value here?

 

The way John Browning intended us to carry the 1911, cocked and locked by his design.

Very few people are smarter than John Browning so I'll defer to his way of carry.

 

1911 History

Actually the 1911 was designed to have the hammer thumbed back as it was drawn.

Check out the 1905 and 1910 models if you don't believe what JMB intended.

Just because later doctrine espouses condition one doesn't mean condition two is wrong.

Browning designed two versions for military trials, an internal hammer & an external hammer.

The Army preferred an external hammer that could be de-cocked manually and be obvious at a glance what condition (cocked/un-cocked) it was in.

The manual thumb safety was NOT a part of the initial design, it was added later at the request of the Cavalry branch for greater safety in battle on a horse.

The Army did not allow routine carry cocked & locked. That came along much later with Cooper in the late 1950s & early 1960s.

It IS the most action-ready method of carry, but it was NOT designed initially for it.

Those who say "Browning intended it to be carried C&L" have no factual basis for that statement.

 

1911 History

Actually the 1911 was designed to have the hammer thumbed back as it was drawn.

Check out the 1905 and 1910 models if you don't believe what JMB intended.

Just because later doctrine espouses condition one doesn't mean condition two is wrong.

Browning designed two versions for military trials, an internal hammer & an external hammer.

The Army preferred an external hammer that could be de-cocked manually and be obvious at a glance what condition (cocked/un-cocked) it was in.

The manual thumb safety was NOT a part of the initial design, it was added later at the request of the Cavalry branch for greater safety in battle on a horse.

The Army did not allow routine carry cocked & locked. That came along much later with Cooper in the late 1950s & early 1960s.

It IS the most action-ready method of carry, but it was NOT designed initially for it.

Those who say "Browning intended it to be carried C&L" have no factual basis for that statement.

Just saw your post, thank you. I know I did not make that up.....lol

 

I learned the 1911 in the Military Police Academy in 1970. Went to OCS and back to the Military Police Academy as a Second Lieutenant in 1974. Both times were were trained to carry an empty chamber with loaded mag on stateside patrol duty. So, I developed the habit of hammer down carry, except mine always had a round in the chamber. Even if you take a hard fall the odds are pretty slim that you would strike the hammer and have a discharge. I am now a fat guy so even on the waist there is lots of padding even if I fell on my gun.

Later, I spent several years on protective service duty with another agency and about 4 years carried a 1911. Cocked and locked in an original Jackazz rig, later called the Miami Classic. Shoulder carry is the only really fast draw when you spend most of your time in a car. You are also moving a lot and cannot risk a jacket flopping up and exposing the gun, so it was cocked and locked and carried vertical, pointing at everyone behind you. We were also trained to shoot with one hand only for several reasons, often you had the protectee at the end of your weak arm pushing or pulling them where you wanted them to go. Just a matter of training. We often carried 2 handguns and the 1911 was the second gun on those days. Our training was to shoot the first guy dry drop it and continue the mission with our issue 1911.

Later in civilian law enforcement I carried cocked and locked. As long as I have a leather snap between the hammer and the rear of the gun, I am safe.

As an old retired guy, I carry several handguns, depending on the mission that day. When I carry a 1911 today, it is back to live round hammer down.

I also carry single actions, model 1873s on occasion. With both the cowboy gun as well as the 1911, by habit I jerk out it of the holster and cock them as they clear the holster. I do double/single action revolvers the same way, if I need it, I want single action fire for the first round, took a lot of training. but it is what it is. Just the cowboy in me I suppose. I am 73 and have never had an unplanned discharge. One of my single actions it 12 ounces, I set my 1911s at 4.5 pounds.

Just my way. If you are going in harms way, cock the gun.

And to me, the most dangerous way to carry a 1911 is when you put the wrong barrel in it. A 38 super is fine, a 10 mm is fine, even a 40 is fine, but please do not put a 9mm in a 1911. Just too dangerous.

 

First off, the act of racking a shotgun or semi-auto pistol might scare off a threat, or it may simply reveal your location and incite an immediate and violent response. Second, there is good chance when racking said action that you may have a malfunction, especially if you short-stroke the action.

There was a video floating around online of a thug robbing a convenience store, and when he racked the slide on his "Glock .40 problem solver" you could clearly see it jammed. That saved the life of the convenience store clerk, but had it been a good guy drawing against a bad one it would've been fatal.

 

Condition ONE all day every day cocked and locked when carrying a 1911 and when I do carry a Glock it is in condition ZERO according to dsk in post #38. I consider both of these carry conditions to be the correct way to carry the 1911 and the Glock respectively. Carry on my friends.

 

A person could argue that a Glock is really just partially-cocked and unlocked, but I still say Condition 0 because for all practical purposes the weapon will fire with just a short pull of the trigger. They're not like a revolver (despite Glock's advertising claims) as the degree of trigger travel and weight required to fire is far less than what a DA revolver needs in order to fire.

People are more than welcome to make their own choices, but I will only carry a striker-fired auto that has a manual safety, and I carry it in the equivalent of Condition 1 with a round chambered and the safety applied.

 

Condition 0 sounds fine to me, I like it.